D&D 5E How is the Cleric in Actual Play?

[Ashrym]

Gnolls typically have bows and spears instead of javelins last I checked and would last 2-3 rounds if within range of a third level spirit guardians. A fifth level cleric can cast the spell twice for solid damage against gnolls who don't pull a fighting withdrawal of shooting and moving, or retreating / observing / attacking again in attempted ambush.

All day long hordes of gnolls seems a stretch unless significant information is left out, like it's a level 15 cleric or something. The actual premise was lower cr's were more relevant longer and not forever.

Gnolls using no tactics is cherry picking the point. Replace them with cr 1/2 Satyrs in a large meadow who have more hit points plus magic resistance and the same hordes of cr 1/2 becomes more challenging.

 

[Oofta]

I've had no difficulty challenging relatively high level PCs with low level monsters as long as the monsters are not suicidal.

But sure. Throw wave after wave into a grinder or have dozens of critters appear in perfect fireball formation at too great a distance to get in close and it's not going to be a challenge.

Have those gnolls firing from a distance while ducking behind cover or attacking the wizard while ignoring the cleric. The kobolds snipe from tunnels that narrow down to tiny (with hidden murder holes when people get stuck) while setting off traps and collapsing tunnels? Now we have a challenge.

Low level monsters are much like zombies. Individually not much threat against someone prepared to fight unless they get lucky. But in large enough numbers? Then they're a threat.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sorry, that's just not practical.

I'm sure you can play D&D as "fantasy f*cking vietnam" and spend hours on a gnoll scenario.

But if you run encounters normally, Spirit Guardians single-handedly shuts down any regular monster with less than twice the spell's damage.

Sure you can dreg up an exception, but most MM critters have poor ranged attacks and poor mobility.

So doing so doesn't change the main point.

What I want to know is instead why you spend such energy in trying to resist this message.

Why make so much fuss a out it, going to great lengths "proving" kobolds can annoy players?

Why not simply accept that dragged out fights with petty foes that try to prolong the encounter aren't fun, aren't how the game is expected to play out, and that the devs have included a spell that basically means the bounded accuracy claim is null and void?

Does this mean you're playing your game badwrongfun?

No. It just means your ability to turn a 15 minute encounter with kobolds into a hours-long exercise in frustration isn't worth bragging about.

Read an official module. Study how it structures encounters. Then ponder whether your own game in any way resembles the way most people are playing.

 

[5ekyu]

Sorry, that's just not practical.

I'm sure you can play D&D as "fantasy f*cking vietnam" and spend hours on a gnoll scenario.

But if you run encounters normally, Spirit Guardians single-handedly shuts down any regular monster with less than twice the spell's damage.

Sure you can dreg up an exception, but most MM critters have poor ranged attacks and poor mobility.

So doing so doesn't change the main point.

What I want to know is instead why you spend such energy in trying to resist this message.

Why make so much fuss a out it, going to great lengths "proving" kobolds can annoy players?

Why not simply accept that dragged out fights with petty foes that try to prolong the encounter aren't fun, aren't how the game is expected to play out, and that the devs have included a spell that basically means the bounded accuracy claim is null and void?

Does this mean you're playing your game badwrongfun?

No. It just means your ability to turn a 15 minute encounter with kobolds into a hours-long exercise in frustration isn't worth bragging about.

Read an official module. Study how it structures encounters. Then ponder whether your own game in any way resembles the way most people are playing.

Huh? So, see, it seems like this "message" you want us to accept is one nobody but you is really disputing, especially 5e rules snd guidelines.

A creature with less than half the HD of damage that SG does and with no useful ranged ability or other threats than melee would be significantly lower CR and not able to significantly impact the scene and so would be ignored in the threat assessment of the scene by the normal CR rules for assessing multiple foes impact on CR.

You seem to be arguing that 5e was claiming otherwise or that some people claimed differently, based off some half quote from who knows where.

So, yeah, myself and others took your claim to task - especially as far as it bring " ptoof" of anything.

Its certainly not true that somehow the ability of an encounter to be rolled thru is proof bonded accuracy is nullified and void.

But, as for your thoughts on how we should all get the idea that this encounter or that encounter isnt fun, well, again I think that just tells us a lot about you or your gameplay or your preferences (or perhaps posting preferences at least.)

But, most of the monsters in the MM cannot breath water. If I as gm have a lake or river in my scene and describe a set of foes running headlong into them and drowning, that doesn't prove "lakes" broke bounded accuracy.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Those dome people! I hate their legions of CR 1/8 archers!

 

[Bitbrain]

Reply to OP.

In my experience, 5e clerics are a lot of fun.

War Domain is my personal favorite. My half-orc cleric really felt like he was the commanding officer of our adventuring party.

A War Cleric with Crusader’s Mantle + a few animated skeletons + Battle Master Fighter + Shadow Monk + Champion Fighter = a lot of dead enemies.

 

[Rhenny]

Just a quick post. I’ve played/DMd for over 30 years. This version of the cleric is by far the most versatile and fun to play. I’ve played a Storm Cleric, a Sun Cleric, a War Cleric and a straight up Healing Cleric, and I’ve enjoyed them all. They play very differently and feel different, but they all contribute well to the party.

 

[Ashrym]

Archers are so last post.

If they are going to be suicidal anyway give them dynamite and magical deadman switches.

"fantasy vietnam" is so last post. :-D

 

[Oofta]

Sorry, that's just not practical.

I'm sure you can play D&D as "fantasy f*cking vietnam" and spend hours on a gnoll scenario.

But if you run encounters normally, Spirit Guardians single-handedly shuts down any regular monster with less than twice the spell's damage.

Sure you can dreg up an exception, but most MM critters have poor ranged attacks and poor mobility.

So doing so doesn't change the main point.

What I want to know is instead why you spend such energy in trying to resist this message.

Why make so much fuss a out it, going to great lengths "proving" kobolds can annoy players?

Why not simply accept that dragged out fights with petty foes that try to prolong the encounter aren't fun, aren't how the game is expected to play out, and that the devs have included a spell that basically means the bounded accuracy claim is null and void?

Does this mean you're playing your game badwrongfun?

No. It just means your ability to turn a 15 minute encounter with kobolds into a hours-long exercise in frustration isn't worth bragging about.

Read an official module. Study how it structures encounters. Then ponder whether your own game in any way resembles the way most people are playing.

Why are the monsters running into the zone of doom? Either attack PCs that aren't adjacent to the cleric or just retreat for 10 minutes. But even a CR 1/2 gnoll is going to last (on average) a round or two. Plenty of time to force some concentration checks.

As far as a kobold encounter ... not every encounter has to be kill every thing that moves. Personally I try to throw a wide variety of encounters with different goals. Sometimes it's kill everything, sometimes it's get out of the kobold infested caves alive.

As far as large numbers, I use mob rules from chapter 8 of the DMG. If a monster is truly no threat, we'll hand-wave combat and narrate what's happening potentially with input from the PCs if it adds to the game.

Fighting monsters of just about any relative CR can become a boring slog, whether they're significantly lower than your level or it's a boss monster. If you can't come up with engaging combats for a specific type of monster don't use them. That doesn't mean the that "the bounded accuracy claim is null and void". It might mean you're just not very good at running that type of combat.

 

[Hussar]

Shhhh, @Oofta, this is a long standing thing. Of course no one ever brings the slightest tactical acumen to the game, and everyone who runs modules turns off half their brain and only does EXACTLY what is written in the module.