How many elves are too many elves?

[Wiseblood]

One elf. One set of stat bonuses and special abilities. I would say Dexterity and Charisma. Most elf sub-races make me think that someone wanted an elf (or a beautiful pointy eared human that can be a snob and call it RP) AND wanted the best stats for whatever character class they intended to play.

 

[gyor]

I was going to write (almost) this exact thing. All the elf subraces are just proxies for not being able to do anything with humans. Though I actually find it creepier and more bothersome that elves are used as a stand-in for human races.

Sure, have different elven cultures but no need for different stats.

I know of no real world human cultures that resembles any Elven cultures in the Forgotten Realms. This not true for humans in FR.

 

[Yaarel]

The two 13-Age elves covers most cultures in the D&D traditions.

• High Elf (Charisma or Strength)
• Wood Elf (Dexterity or Wisdom)

D&D cultures
• Eladrin ≈ High Elf (because Charisma)
• Half Elf ≈ High Elf (because Charisma)
• High Elf ≈ High Elf (because Intelligence)
• 2e Tulani Eladrin ≈ High Elf (because Charisma and Intelligence)
• 1e Grey Elf ≈ High Elf (because Intelligence, also Charisma as ‘faerie’ and Comeliness)
• Sun Elf ≈ High Elf (because Intelligence for high magic)
• Moon Elf ≈ High Elf (because Charisma for sociability)
• Wood Elf ≈ Wood Elf (because Dexterity)
• Drow Elf ≈ Wood Elf (because Dexterity, also Wisdom Cleric)
• Winged Avariel Elf ≈ Wood Elf (because Dexterity, also Wisdom for perceptive eagle eyes)
• Dusk Elf ≈ High Elf (because Intelligence), alternatively Wood Elf (because of Dexterity)

Some cultures work less well.
• Shadar Kai ≈ (Constitution for pain tolerance and death survival)
• Athas Elf ≈ (Constitution for nomadic walking and dry desert toughness)
• 3e Wild Elf ≈ (Constitution for wilderness toughness)
• Grugach Wild Elf ≈ (Strength)
• 2e Bralani Eladrin ≈ (Strength and Constitution)
• 2e Fiere Eladrin ≈ (Strength and Charisma)
• 1e Wood Elf ≈ (Strength)
• Sea Elf ≈ (Strength for fighter, swimming, but also Charisma for sorcerer, siren)

 

[Yaarel]

In light of the D&D elf traditions, I would actually lean toward the following two to cover all.


D&D High Elf (+2 to Charisma, Intelligence, or Strength)
D&D Wood Elf (+2 to Dexterity, Wisdom, or Constitution)

 

[Yaarel]

Even so, personally. The most important D&D elf archetypes are:

High Elf (Charisma, Intelligence)
Wood Elf (Dexterity, Wisdom)

 

[superstition]

One elf. One set of stat bonuses and special abilities. I would say Dexterity and Charisma. Most elf sub-races make me think that someone wanted an elf (or a beautiful pointy eared human that can be a snob and call it RP) AND wanted the best stats for whatever character class they intended to play.

I think elf type should be determined by location evolution primarily, although magical intervention is also a possibility.

Forest elves get forest-related qualities.

Subterranean elves get subterranean qualities (that means albino or very pale not black, depending on how much light exposure there is underground where they live and how much time they spend underground).

Sea elves get aquatic characteristics.

Maybe forest-dwelling "country folk" (wood elves) get a bit different things than forest city dwellers ("grey" elves). But, I think that's rather a stretch unless they're totally isolated geographically for a long long time.

Elves should be NPCs for my previously stated reason. I don't have an issue with there being more than one type. Just make the reasons meaningful. Evolution (including unnatural selection) over long periods of time (extremely long periods when elves are concerned) is the only explanation, other than a powerful magical effect, for differing racial traits.

As for stat bonuses... I am not a fan. I think it's more than questionable to give an entire race an intelligence bonus, a wisdom bonus, or a charisma bonus. The thing about individuals is that they're all different. Kinsey found that when he spent years collecting some sort of insect or whatever. He collected tens of thousands and said they all were unique, a result that surprised him.

I get that D&D is about the group (the party) but why be so anti-individual that you think that everyone from a specific cultural group is going to be that identical? There are going to be less intelligent, more intelligent... less wise, more wise. Less charismatic... more charismatic. Unless you're dealing with clones.

If there are no ugly or stupid elves by human standards then that can be a rule. I can see it. But, make the mechanics reflect that specifically. As I recall, 1st edition did something like this. I think the elf required minimum stats in various categories. Don't start out elves with 10s in those categories (bonuses included). 10 is average for a human, correct? Average is not beautiful, charismatic, or intelligent. It's the lack of those qualities above the norm that defines it. Instead of just bonuses with 8s I think a legal range for different races/species is more accurate to the flavor. Want all elves to be good-looking? Make 13 the minimum. I also think comeliness needs to be specifically statted as it was with the original Unearthed Arcana. Squashing a person's oration skill and things like that with their beauty is a mess.

 

[Yaarel]

Horses are stronger than rabbits.

Humans are smarter than frogs.

Why is it hard to understand genetic differences?

 

[superstition]

Horses are stronger than rabbits.

Humans are smarter than frogs.

Why is it hard to understand genetic differences?

That example would work if D&D referred to species rather than races.

Half-elves are half elf and half human.

Where are all the horse-rabbit and human-frog offspring? In Hyperbole Land, perhaps.

The definition of race in D&D is muddied but it's far removed from your analogy attempt.

 

[Yaarel]

That example would work if D&D referred to species rather than races.

Half-elves are half elf and half human.

Where are all the horse-rabbit and human-frog offspring? In Hyperbole Land, perhaps.

The definition of race in D&D is muddied but it's far removed from your analogy attempt.

The elf is a spirit. (The feywild and shadowfell are spirit realms.)

When an elf and a human have a child, it is moreso a magical transformation of human DNA, rather than a ‘hybrid’ in the natural sense.

In D&D, some elf spirits left the feywild and materialized into the material plane. It is debatable how ‘natural’ their DNA is, if they even have DNA. Maybe they are inorganic ectoplasm?

In any case, the half-elf is a magical creature.

 

[Yaarel]

Personally, I prefer the new Pathfinder 2 term ‘ancestry’. Not only does ancestry sound more cool, not only does it avoid the embarrassing connotations of ‘racism’, but ancestry is arguably more accurate. The ancestors of humans are humans. The ancestors of spirits are spirits.

What is the best way to characterize the ancestry of a golem, such as a warforged? In this case, the ancestry is more like a blue print design for an artificial construct.