How much damage?

[whatisitgoodfor]

Ok, a wizard is doign his job right by standing on the sidelines of the battle trying not to be killed. He notices a barbarian start to give him the evil eye, and casts Chill Touch.

The barbarian then charges the wizard and initiates a grapple.

If the wizard is 10th level, how much damage will the barbarian take from Chill Touch if he fails all his saves (yeah, I know that woudn't really happen)?

Also, how fast will the damage occur? Does the entire grapple only count as one "touch," or does each grapple check count as a "touch," or is it simply a touch when the wizard makes a touch attack?

 

[ruleslawyer]

The barbarian will not take damage from chill touch merely by grappling the wizard. Touch attacks require that the creature using them actually make an attack roll and TOUCH the target with a hand or other suitable appendage. Being touched does not allow you to unleash a touch attack.

The wizard can, of course, use the AoO provoked by the barbarian's grapple attempt to touch him. That touch attack will do the usual 1d6 hp damage and 1 point of Str damage on a failed Fortitude save.

 

[AGGEMAM]

The barbarian will not take damage from chill touch merely by grappling the wizard. Touch attacks require that the creature using them actually make an attack roll and TOUCH the target with a hand or other suitable appendage. Being touched does not allow you to unleash a touch attack.

The wizard can, of course, use the AoO provoked by the barbarian's grapple attempt to touch him. That touch attack will do the usual 1d6 hp damage and 1 point of Str damage on a failed Fortitude save.

Sorry ruleslawyer but you are wrong.

If you touch someone who has cast a touch attack spell on himself but haven't touched anyone yet. The touch attack spell goes off, and you suffer the effect of the touch attack spell (if you don not make the save. if any).

See the PHB, page 125, touch speels in combat, and page 126, holding the charge.

This is actually one of my favorite NPC tactics.

 

[CRGreathouse]

See the PHB, page 125, touch speels in combat, and page 126, holding the charge.

These pages don't support your viewpoint at all.

 

[Artoomis]

It will take good DM'ing to figure this out.

There are four things that might happen, in the order I consider most likely:

1. The Barbarian is touched, purposely or accidentally, and gets the Chill Touch effect on him.

2. The mage is touched accidentally by himself during the grapple, and gets the full effect of the Chill Touch.

3. The spell dissipates harmlessly into whatever the mage accidentally touches - the floor, wall, whatever. It dissipates harmlessly because it's not a legitimate target for the spell, but the PHB states clearly that the spell is .

4. The mage keeps the spell at the ready, and can strike with it on his turn.

Of course, it's also possible for the mage to simply let the spell power go without discharging it at all, but I think he can only do that on his own turn.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

First off...

If you touch someone who has cast a touch attack spell on himself but haven't touched anyone yet. The touch attack spell goes off, and you suffer the effect of the touch attack spell (if you don not make the save. if any).

See the PHB, page 125, touch speels in combat, and page 126, holding the charge.

This is actually one of my favorite NPC tactics.

This is BS ...

The text on this:

If you touch anyone or anything while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges.

Would presume the mage is forced to touch something. Nowhwere in the rules does it say that the spell is discharged if YOU are touched.

Now - you could force the hand to touch something, if you had the grapple. This would discharge the touch spell under the "unintentional touch" component (unwillfully counts as unintentional).

Artoomis has identified the four possibilities...

1. The Barbarian is touched, purposely or accidentally, and gets the Chill Touch effect on him.

This would have to be purposeful - as the result of an attack roll. You don't accidentally "attack" someone - and the barbarian cannot set the spell of by touching the wizard's hand. The wizard gets his chance on the AoO.

2. The mage is touched accidentally by himself during the grapple, and gets the full effect of the Chill Touch.

This would require some sort of a "critical fumble" rule, which is optional and not default.

3. The spell dissipates harmlessly into whatever the mage accidentally touches - the floor, wall, whatever. It dissipates harmlessly because it's not a legitimate target for the spell, but the PHB states clearly that the spell is .

This could happen - if either:

1. The mage were "forced" to touch something.
or
2. Some sort of fumble occurs under optional rules

4. The mage keeps the spell at the ready, and can strike with it on his turn.

The default situation until 1 or 3 occurs.

 

[hong]

2. The mage is touched accidentally by himself during the grapple, and gets the full effect of the Chill Touch.

Yeah, I hate it too when I accidentally touch myself.

 

[trentonjoe]

4. The mage keeps the spell at the ready, and can strike with it on his turn.

[/B]

I vote for this option. Although if he were successfully grappled, I would probably give him (oe her) a +4 or so on the touch attack. I would not allow him to make a touch attack AND a graaple check.

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

The mage makes his attack of oppertunity with chill touch, assuming he hasn'tused it that round. The barbarian takes damage and cannot attempt to start the grapple.

 

[Negative Zero]

i got a question about this, how does the mage make his opposed grapple check (using his strength and BAB) vs the barbarian, without touching said barbarian with his hands?