How powerful are my PCs?

[shilsen]

I know. I know. I just can't help myself

I'm not complaining. A decent discussion is always fun, and I can talk about my game till the cows come home

But tough in comparison to what? Normal regular human beings are worms beneath their notice at this level. They could settle down as gods and people would have to treat them accordingly.

True, for the most part. They're well-known as the most powerful adventuring group in Sharn and probably Breland, partly because their exploits have appeared in the Korranberg Chronicle on multiple occasions (and the KC now runs a weekly column chronicling their past adventures). But even so, they know that a weaker set of enemies could take them with smart tactics and preparation, so they can't just run rough-shod over the planet.

And everyone they are supposed to fight just gets their toughnes level scaled accordingly up.

Actually, I may have been unclear here. I don't level up or add special abilities to their enemies to make them stronger. I just generally use tactics and teamwork whenever appropriate to make the enemies more effective than they could otherwise be. Also, I should add that the campaign is very heavily player/PC-driven, so I don't use an overarching plot but rather let PCs pursue whatever they desire. So they have a very significant amount of control over who they fight, and there really never is anyone they are "supposed to fight".

By that you are just changing what a level is. In some ways you are actually scewing things in the direction of fighter types who with those perma buffs funtion as they are about 2 levels higher. Casters will still only have access to lower level spells, so they benefit less. The instant metamagic and few encounters might (over)compensate for this.

So CR 12 fight should be a scare. At least one with mainly fightery opponents who gains more from your rules than the PC's.

Now you're losing me.

Almost none of the rules I mentioned help the NPCs. They don't get permabuffs, extra high stats, extra equipment, swashbuckling cards, or anything like that. Those are all unique to the PCs. The NPCs do get the extra skill pts, since that applies to all classes and creatures, but that's hardly going to help in most fights. They also get to use the UA metamgic rules, but obviously few enemies are spellcasters and especially those with levels enough to really benefit from them.

In short, I'm confused. Did you think I meant that the NPCs get all the benefits listed in the first post? That's not the case. And 90% of my NPCs are completely core, maybe with a feat or two from the Complete and Eberron books.

And even though levels don't increase, you are changing the power structure of Eberron. I'm not even trying to imply it's wrong, it just looks completely needless.

Not really - on changing the power level, I mean. In general, as I mentioned above, I use the standard Eberron material, give the NPCs a reason to fight smart, and do so. As for the need, it's mostly because my players like to run high-powered characters. So I let them, and I do what's needed to challenge them, while still keeping things within the flavor of the setting. It's a balancing act, but so far it's worked very well.

Personally I do not like your houserules. But to each his own.

Sure. As long as your game works fine for you and mine for me, I figure we're both doing fine.

 

[Voadam]

I think yours are slightly less powerful than mine, though the swashbuckling cards might tip it in your characters favor.

Campaign 1

I took over DMing a shared world one with powerful high level characters.

points split among the stats but somewhere in the 90s.

hit points are no rolls, 1st level max and half round up for hit die rolls. No massive damage saves. Fortitude Saving throws each round instead of death at -10+ hp. Save or die = Save or dying.

Equipment above the normal including two with artefacts, one with an item familiar, one (druid) with vow of poverty.

Recharge Magic from Unearthed Arcana

Half of Wizard spells gained from level must be from PH/srd one spell can be from other sources (subject to DM approval) including Tome and Blood, Complete Book of Eldritch Might, and others (I have lots of d20 books).

Feats from lots of sources.

Campaign II online here for my Wildwood game

has 48 point buy with 8 point point buy cost for free LA or gestalt with NPC class or 16 points to full gestalt.

Feats every level

mostly the same otherwise as campaign I above except no recharge magic.

 

[shilsen]

Recharge Magic from Unearthed Arcana

This is something else I'd considered using a long while ago. How has it worked out in play? What sort of things does it change in the game from more traditional spellcasting, do you think?

Feats every level

How has this worked out in play?

 

[Furby076]

Hmmm...he probably couldn't kill the whole party at once if he started in melee range, but almost (With 28 Charisma and good rolls on Iajutsu Focus, He can do I believe 9d6+81 bonus damage on a Whirlwind attack, which lets him hit for a total of ~140). And yeah, for the rest of the fight, he hits for like 20 damage a pop at most.

Well one thing to note about our characters, for all the goodies, we are not tweaked players by any means. I used to hang around the character optimization boards and there are some NASTY things you can do with straight books going by the rules.

Iajutsu was one of those classes that always popped up and had crazy nasty combos - like doing 10k dmg per round.

Our character's are definitly not optimized, and considering the gear/bonuses we get I would say we are sub-par...for example, for all the cool stuff Gareth can do, he is sub-optimal because of the exorcist prestige class....losing lots of spellcasting for the ability to bypass DR... and there are much "cheaper" ways of passing DR.

I would say our core druid is the most powerful PC in our group and that is because core druids are the only core class that does not need to be swapped iwth other classes to be optimal.


Oh, and shil's b0rk3n.

 

[Agamon]

The five PCs in my Eberron campaign

This is all I had to read. I voted the first option.

 

[Hussar]

From baseline D&D, I'd agree with the idea that your party is about 2 levels above what their actual level is. Compared to my World's Largest Dungeon bunch, you are hell on wheels.

Sounds like you're having fun though, so go for it.

Originally Posted by shilsen
The five PCs in my Eberron campaign

This is all I had to read. I voted the first option.

Yes, because, anything beyond vanilla D&D, Tolkien ripoff gaming is wrongbadfun.

 

[Nightfall]

Hussar,

Unless it's Scarred Lands. Then it's all good.

 

[Hussar]

Hussar,

Unless it's Scarred Lands. Then it's all good.

Well, you know I agree with that. But, of course, for some people, anything beyond hobbits and elves is just NOT D&D.

 

[Nightfall]

phfft!

The only good elf is a forsaken or wood elf!

As for hobbits, they make nice snacking food for Assatthi.

 

[Agamon]

Yes, because, anything beyond vanilla D&D, Tolkien ripoff gaming is wrongbadfun.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Nothing wrong with the setting itself, if that's your thing. But it's a bit twinky for my liking. Eberron is the power creep setting, IMO. Thus my response.