D&D (2024) How should the Swordmage be implemented in 1DnD?

[Neonchameleon]

All the half-casters suck at the highest tiers, being neither a competent caster nor a heavy hitter.

The thing is I don't think that a swordmage should have as much magic as a dedicated full caster - after all they are trying to walk both paths at once and "I hit it" should be a common option. Which means the more I think about it the more I think that a quasi-warlock chassis is the best choice as that gives you some magic, some melee, and some ... something else. And we're getting that

 

[CreamCloud0]

for a majority of a swordmage's basic attack options i don't think they ought to need to be casting a spell to be dealing magic/elemental damage from their weapon, in a similar way to how the monk gains innate magic damage to their punches, to represent that their swordplay and magic are so intertwined that they function as the same thing, this leaves their spell slots available for actual 'higher level techniques'

i think it would be interesting to see how they would work as a short-rest half-caster, similar to how i believe the warlock was presented to be reformatted as in the design packets? i think?

 

[TwoSix]

The thing is I don't think that a swordmage should have as much magic as a dedicated full caster - after all they are trying to walk both paths at once and "I hit it" should be a common option. Which means the more I think about it the more I think that a quasi-warlock chassis is the best choice as that gives you some magic, some melee, and some ... something else. And we're getting that

Warlock chassis is the way to go, I think. You get full caster progression, but not full caster volume, which fits for a class that mostly uses a weapon but mixes in some spells.

Focus on bladetrips (a la BB/GFB) as primary offensive option. (They did originate with the 4e swordmage, after all). Make a bunch of new ones for other damage types, mixed in with other soft control options. Give Bladesinger Cantrip + Attack as the Tier 2 offensive boost; it roughly tracks with the expected Warlock damage output of EB+AB.

Ability to "smite" with a bonus action use of a spell slot, turning offensive spell into hit on next melee attack. (This mechanic has been done in multiple swordmage-type homebrews, the mechanic isn't hard to derive.) Possibly other uses for BA derived from subclass.

Invocation budget can be used to strengthen martial or magical identity, or gain utility, as desired. Turn Mystic Arcanum into flexible "high-tier" invocations, of which gaining a 6th-9th level slot is only one option.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Warlock chassis is the way to go, I think. You get full caster progression, but not full caster volume, which fits for a class that mostly uses a weapon but mixes in some spells.

Focus on bladetrips (a la BB/GFB) as primary offensive option. (They did originate with the 4e swordmage, after all). Make a bunch of new ones for other damage types, mixed in with other soft control options. Give Bladesinger Cantrip + Attack as the Tier 2 offensive boost; it roughly tracks with the expected Warlock damage output of EB+AB.

You're going to need an entire new class if you do that - or at least to not allow Agonizing Blast to work with bladetrips. And to take away Hex.

For myself I'd give this as the tier 3 damage boost rather than giving a third attack. But I think this is because I think the warlock is near enough there that I'd rather tweak it than try to tear the design space out.

 

[TwoSix]

You're going to need an entire new class if you do that - or at least to not allow Agonizing Blast to work with bladetrips. And to take away Hex.

For myself I'd give this as the tier 3 damage boost rather than giving a third attack. But I think this is because I think the warlock is near enough there that I'd rather tweak it than try to tear the design space out.

Agreed. I was talking about using the base warlock chassis (pact magic + invocations) for an entirely new class.

 

[FrogReaver]

All the half-casters suck at the highest tiers, being neither a competent caster nor a heavy hitter.

The 2014 Paladin was an exception via a char op exploitation. But the UA Paladin reined in this exploit.

I want a combat mage who wields slot 9 spells!

I am sick of dabbling Fighters (including Ranger and now Paladin), sorely disappointed with Artificer, and fed up with half-asked magic.

I think we’ve found the issue.

You like sword mages, you don’t like half-casters because they aren’t powerful enough, therefore the swordmage cannot be a half caster.

IMO, we can make a low power or high power swordmage on any chassis. The question is more about thematics.

 

[FrogReaver]

Warlock chassis is the way to go, I think. You get full caster progression, but not full caster volume, which fits for a class that mostly uses a weapon but mixes in some spells.

Focus on bladetrips (a la BB/GFB) as primary offensive option. (They did originate with the 4e swordmage, after all). Make a bunch of new ones for other damage types, mixed in with other soft control options. Give Bladesinger Cantrip + Attack as the Tier 2 offensive boost; it roughly tracks with the expected Warlock damage output of EB+AB.

Ability to "smite" with a bonus action use of a spell slot, turning offensive spell into hit on next melee attack. (This mechanic has been done in multiple swordmage-type homebrews, the mechanic isn't hard to derive.) Possibly other uses for BA derived from subclass.

Invocation budget can be used to strengthen martial or magical identity, or gain utility, as desired. Turn Mystic Arcanum into flexible "high-tier" invocations, of which gaining a 6th-9th level slot is only one option.

Yea. As an alternative to half caster - a warlock model could work well.

 

[Corinnguard]

Laser Llama's Magus class has an arcane version of the Paladin's Blessed Warrior fighting style where they would be able to select two cantrips from the Wizard's spell list.

Arcane Warrior​

You learn two cantrips of your choice from the Wizard spell list. They count as Magus spells for you, and Intelligence is your spellcasting ability. Whenever you gain a level, you can replace one of these cantrips with another Wizard cantrip.

Now if you want your Swordmage to know some combat maneuvers that combine melee and spellcasting, Level Up has the Arcane Knight combat tradition. https://a5e.tools/combat-maneuvers?field_cm_tradition_target_id[0]=613&combine= Purple Martin Games has the Cutting Omen combat tradition in their Manual of Adventurous Resources: Complete.

 

[TwoSix]

Yea. As an alternative to half caster - a warlock model could work well.

If it were up to me, all 3 half-casters, plus Warlock and Bard, would use the Warlock model for progression.

 

[Yaarel]

The thing is I don't think that a swordmage should have as much magic as a dedicated full caster - after all they are trying to walk both paths at once and "I hit it" should be a common option. Which means the more I think about it the more I think that a quasi-warlock chassis is the best choice as that gives you some magic, some melee, and some ... something else. And we're getting that

Earlier editions of D&D were never balanced.

The Wizard/Magicuser that too weak at low levels and too powerful at high levels is due to poor game design.

Gimping casters in combat is part of what caused imbalances in the game. Making casters incompetent in combat was NEVER a viable method to balance the features.

The way to make a melee caster balance is to ensure that it is balanced in melee challenges: so that it has enough hit points to be viable on the front line, and neither to die too soon nor to trivialize the level appropriate challenges. The melee caster needs the same survivability as the melee weapon wielder.

5e already has SEVERAL classes that are full casters who are competent in melee. It is no big deal.

It is important to avoid gimping a melee caster because of some false notion about the 1e Magic-User.