D&D (2024) How should the Swordmage be implemented in 1DnD?

[tetrasodium]

Give me a 20th level Diviner Wizard, let's roll initiative, and surround them with a Fighter, a Monk, a Barbarian, and another Fighter for kicks. Unless all four roll above the Wizard, the Wizard will not only get out of danger on their turn, they will potentially avoid all damage leading up to their turn, and they will likely cripple or screw over two of the martials as they get away from the other two.

Four Diviner Wizards around any martial is likely dead at the end of the round. Several hold persons, several finger of deaths, several wishes, etc etc; martials don't have a quarter of the resources fullcasters do, especially at higher levels.

Spoiler: DMG283

MONSTERS WITH C LASSES
You can use the rules i n chapter 3 of the Player's
Handbook to give class levels to a monster. For example
you can turn an ordinary werewolf into a werewolf with
four levels of the barbarian class (such a monster would
be expressed as "Werewolf, 4th-level barbarian").
Start with the monster's stat block. The monster gains
all the class features for every class level you add, with
the following exceptions:
• The monster doesn't gain the starting equipment of
the added class.
• For each class level you add, the monster gains one
Hit Die of its normal type (based on its size), ignoring
the class's Hit Die progression.
The monster's proficiency bonus is based on its
challenge rating, not its class levels.
Once you finish adding class levels to a monster,
feel free to tweak its ability scores as you see fit (for
example, raising the monster's Intelligence score so
that the monster is a more effective wizard), and make
whatever other adjustments are needed. You'll need
to recalculate its challenge rating as though you had
designed the monster from scratch.
Depending on the monster and the number of class
levels you add to it, its challenge rating might change
very little or increase dramatically. For example, a
werewolf that gains four barbarian levels is a much
greater threat than it was before. In contrast, the hit
points, spells, and other class features that an ancient
red dragon gains from five levels of wizard don't
increase its challenge rating.

Well duh... twenty levels of monk barbarian or fighter are going to provide far more than a mere "dramatic" increase in the CR of nearly any monster given that d&d is not a game like smash, streetfighter, or mortal kombat.

 

[mellored]

It has to do with a Swordmage needing to be a swordMAGE.

Anything that undermines the MAGE kills the swordMAGE.

It must be a fullcaster.

4e didn't have it be any more "mage than anything else.

Hmm..
What if the Swordmage was a 4e class?

Level 1
Gain 3 cantrips, and a Basic Sword Art, and 1 spell slot per spell level.
When you use your Sword Art, you can not use that Sword Art again until you take a short rest. When you gain a level, you can change your Sword Art for another one of equal or lower level.

Level 2
You gain one of the following utilities.
...

Level 3
Chose an Aegis.


Level 5, you gain an Adept Sword Art.
...

 

[FrogReaver]

"Focus fire" that deals extreme damage to eliminate each threat one at a time, is the most powerful tactic in 5e. Martial classes are extremely powerful.

Focus firing the enemy tends to open team PC up to focus fire as well. The problem there is that DMs tend to actively try to not focus fire.

Instead what should be desired is an optimal combination of preventing focus fire on team PC while enabling focus fire on team NPC. In practice this makes for some complex tactical considerations.

Putting a fullcaster within melee reach of a martial actually makes the game more fair for the martial player. The martial gets a chance at actual combat where the martial excels and is extremely deadly.

Kinda sounds like you want the best of both worlds.

 

[Digdude]

The only thing the Swordmage should be in is a Birthright remake,

 

[cbwjm]

The only thing the Swordmage should be in is a Birthright remake,

Why birthright?

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I've always love the Swordmage concept. The mystical aspects of the Book of Nine Swords were fun too. But neither were Arcane Spellcasting Warriors. They were Mystical Warriors like a monk with maneuvers.

A Mystical Warrior does not need half or full spellcasting progression, if they had a robust maneuver system, a la Bo9S (or the 4E Power system). However, an Arcane Spellcasting Warrior (gish) needs some spell progression, because that is where the power is.

Also, what roles do people want out of the Swordmage? A traditional "tank/defender" from 4e? A weapon-using "dpr/striker" with special mystical effects, like the Monk? Those themes need different abilities to pull off those different roles. If the design needs to be able to fulfill multiple roles, that is better suited to a Base Class. If you need only a tank, or only a striker, that can live in subclasses.

To be honest, a Blade Pact Warlock could be designed to fulfill that fantasy, especially the Archfey teleporter. As long as the majority of the mystical weapon-attacks are scalable at-wills like cantrips, their spellcasting can be regulated to whatever spells help them do the job they choose at short rest pace.

I am open to all kinds of designs. There is more than one way to portray a non-magical warrior (Fighter, Barb, Rogue), so there can be more than one way to play a magical warrior, whether Bard, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Archer, Hexblade/Blade Pact, Bladesinger, etc.

One slight annoyance on my side, is that if the class/subclass can use any weapon, I don't like using "Sword" or "Blade" in the class name. But it's not a biggy. I just rename them in my home games.

 

[Yaarel]

4e didn't have it be any more "mage than anything else.

Hmm..
What if the Swordmage was a 4e class?

Level 1
Gain 3 cantrips, and a Basic Sword Art, and 1 spell slot per spell level.
When you use your Sword Art, you can not use that Sword Art again until you take a short rest. When you gain a level, you can change your Sword Art for another one of equal or lower level.

Level 2
You gain one of the following utilities.
...

Level 3
Chose an Aegis.


Level 5, you gain an Adept Sword Art.
...

Because all 4e classes use "powers", it is designwise just as easy to translate the 4e Swordmage into a 5e fullcaster or a 5e noncaster.

So it is the concept that matters.

The concept is a "Defender Role" tanky Wizard.


In any case, 5e doesnt need an other separate class that is same as a Paladin or Ranger or even an Artificer, or Eldritch Knight.

A melee-range Mage is novel for the 5e design space. It is worthwhile having.

The 5e Swordmage must be a fullcaster.

(Likewise the Warlord as a nonmagic controller buffer healer is worthwhile having.)


The "Aegis" is a versatile teleport feature that targets a hostile. It can allow the Swordmage to continually teleport to melee the target, or teleport with the target away, or displace thus debuff the damage by the target.

There can be many flavors of a Swordmage − elemental, space-time-teleporting-divinating, charming-frightening, force constructing, planar-summoner, necromantic, etcetera. I am unsure all of these flavors need to teleport. But perhaps the teleport can flavor variously, such as evaporating into elemental air and recondensing elsewhere, becoming ghostly to manifest elsewhere, etcetera. In any case, the 4e Aegis makes a fine feature for the class or a subclass.

 

[Yaarel]

The word "aegis" αἰγίς the name of the light shield of Athena, which was made out boiled goat leather, whence the sense of intelligently shielding and protecting. In the 5e usage, the Swordmage oneself is the "shield", defending the allies from the hostiles.

Probably, the Aegis works best at level 3 as the subclass feature. Each subclass can have its own version of the Aegis. For example, a telepathic mind-altering Swordmage might become invisible and undetectable to the target (compare 5e Mislead or 1e Psionic Invisibility) or make an ally within melee reach invisible to the target. Likewise use mind-altering effects to "move" the target. A planar-summoner might conjure a creature to help get in the way between the target and the Swordmage allies. And so on. There are various flavors.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

One reason why I'd rather have a half caster swordmage, is that is allows more power to go into cool and unique subclass abilities. Rather than blowing the entire power budget on spells. It's one reason for why I love artificer so much. Any artificer subclass basically feels like an entirely different class.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Also, what roles do people want out of the Swordmage? A traditional "tank/defender" from 4e? A weapon-using "dpr/striker" with special mystical effects, like the Monk? Those themes need different abilities to pull off those different roles. If the design needs to be able to fulfill multiple roles, that is better suited to a Base Class. If you need only a tank, or only a striker, that can live in subclasses.

Personally, I think I want them to be a skirmisher with striker-controller abilities, single target spike damage mixed alongside smaller AoE attacks that have rider effects to disable or manipulate opponents.