D&D General How to be a Not-Terrible DM: Thoughts on the Upcoming DMG

[Snarf Zagyg]

This might sounds a bit odd, but it wouldn't be amiss to include a little advice on how to resolve conflicting ideas/behavior that make the game less fun for everyone. Like what do you do when a player character's actions are making the game less enjoyable for others? How do you address this in a manner that's preserves the dignity of the person you're talking to and leads to a mutually satisfactory conclusion?

Ethereal mummy!

Some players will find more enjoyment in spoiling a game than in playing it, and this ruins the fun for the rest of the participants, so it must be prevented. Those who enjoy being loud and argumentative, those who pout or act in a childish manner when things go against them, those who use the books as a defense when you rule them out of line should be excluded from the campaign. Simply put, ask them to leave, or do not invite them to participate again.

Peer pressure is another means which can be used to control players who are not totally obnoxious and who you deem worth saving. These types typically attempt to give orders and instructions even when their characters are not present, tell other characters what to do even though the character role they have has nothing to do with that of the one being instructed, or continually attempt actions or activities their characters would have no knowledge of. When any such proposals or suggestions or orders are made, simply inform the group that that is no longer possible under any circumstances because of the player in question. The group will then act to silence him or her and control undesirable outbursts. The other players will most certainly let such individuals know about undesirable activity when it begins to affect their characters and their enjoyment of the game.

Strong steps short of expulsion can be an extra random monster die, obviously rolled, the attack of an ethereal mummy (which always strikes by surprise, naturally), points of damage from "blue bolts from the heavens" striking the offender's head, or the permanent loss of a point of charisma (appropriately) from the character belonging to the offender. If these have to be enacted regularly, then they are not effective and stronger measures must be taken. Again, the ultimate answer to such a problem is simply to exclude the disruptive person from further gatherings.

1e DMG p. 110.

TLDR- Three solutions.
1. Kick the player out.
2. Peer pressure.
3. DM fiat!

Now that's some advice that has aged well.

 

[KYRON45]

Ethereal mummy!

Some players will find more enjoyment in spoiling a game than in playing it, and this ruins the fun for the rest of the participants, so it must be prevented. Those who enjoy being loud and argumentative, those who pout or act in a childish manner when things go against them, those who use the books as a defense when you rule them out of line should be excluded from the campaign. Simply put, ask them to leave, or do not invite them to participate again.

Peer pressure is another means which can be used to control players who are not totally obnoxious and who you deem worth saving. These types typically attempt to give orders and instructions even when their characters are not present, tell other characters what to do even though the character role they have has nothing to do with that of the one being instructed, or continually attempt actions or activities their characters would have no knowledge of. When any such proposals or suggestions or orders are made, simply inform the group that that is no longer possible under any circumstances because of the player in question. The group will then act to silence him or her and control undesirable outbursts. The other players will most certainly let such individuals know about undesirable activity when it begins to affect their characters and their enjoyment of the game.

Strong steps short of expulsion can be an extra random monster die, obviously rolled, the attack of an ethereal mummy (which always strikes by surprise, naturally), points of damage from "blue bolts from the heavens" striking the offender's head, or the permanent loss of a point of charisma (appropriately) from the character belonging to the offender. If these have to be enacted regularly, then they are not effective and stronger measures must be taken. Again, the ultimate answer to such a problem is simply to exclude the disruptive person from further gatherings.

1e DMG p. 110.

TLDR- Three solutions.
1. Kick the player out.
2. Peer pressure.
3. DM fiat!

Now that's some advice that has aged well.

well, Gygax was a people person.

 

[damiller]

My honest to goodness advice to all new DMs:
Dive in head first. Make mistakes. Play with your best friends.
It's just a game. Laugh and embarrass yourself and then laugh some more. Play the game the way you think it should be played.
Don't be afraid of criticism....ask for it. Be goofy. Handwave lots of rules; then look them up.
Don't expect anything.
My most important piece of advice.....don't look to the DMG for advice at all.

At one job I would tell new hires: The quickest way to learn to do this right is to do it wrong.

 

[Theory of Games]

This might sounds a bit odd, but it wouldn't be amiss to include a little advice on how to resolve conflicting ideas/behavior that make the game less fun for everyone. Like what do you do when a player character's actions are making the game less enjoyable for others? How do you address this in a manner that's preserves the dignity of the person you're talking to and leads to a mutually satisfactory conclusion?

Already been answered: Talk to the player away from the table. Communication is key, right?

 

[MGibster]

Now that's some advice that has aged well.

My rule is to never punish player characters in order to change player behavior. But other than "blue bolts from heaven," overall it's not bad advice. It didn't even include anything racist or sexist, and for Gygax that's to be applauded.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

This might sounds a bit odd, but it wouldn't be amiss to include a little advice on how to resolve conflicting ideas/behavior that make the game less fun for everyone. Like what do you do when a player character's actions are making the game less enjoyable for others? How do you address this in a manner that's preserves the dignity of the person you're talking to and leads to a mutually satisfactory conclusion?

Ah, but now you're talking white room theory! You're talking general advice. General advice is almost totally useless, don'tchaknow.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

My rule is to never punish player characters in order to change player behavior. But other than "blue bolts from heaven," overall it's not bad advice. It didn't even include anything racist or sexist, and for Gygax that's to be applauded.

Given that's 90% of the advice--how to punish people in-character for out-of-character behavior--this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

Outside of that, it's

• Kick people out if they ever defy you
• Wait until the session is done, then cancel un-invite them
• Use peer pressure to control your players' behavior

None of these are exactly thrilling answers to the question of players behaving in ways you'd prefer they didn't. And not one of them involves the actual solution to the vast majority of these problems, which is communication and respect.

 

[MGibster]

Outside of that, it's

• Kick people out if they ever defy you
• Wait until the session is done, then cancel un-invite them
• Use peer pressure to control your players' behavior

None of these are exactly thrilling answers to the question of players behaving in ways you'd prefer they didn't. And not one of them involves the actual solution to the vast majority of these problems, which is communication and respect.

Kick people out when they defy you? I didn't read that in the quoted paragraph. Did you find that somewhere else?

Peer pressure is one of the most common ways we enforce social mores and while it can be used for evil it can also be used for good. If Bob says something sexist to Karen at the table we should expect other players to say, "Hey, Bob, that's not cool." That's a form of peer pressure. And un-inviting people is a perfectly acceptable way to handle a bad player. "Bob, this isn't working out. I think it's best if you find a new group of players that would better suit your gaming needs."

I agree with you about punishing players by messing with their character is just a bad way to handle things though.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Kick people out when they defy you? I didn't read that in the quoted paragraph. Did you find that somewhere else?

"those who use the books as a defense when you rule them out of line should be excluded from the campaign."

DM's word is law. Reference the book, and expect to be kicked out. That is the literal meaning of the text presented.

Peer pressure is one of the most common ways we enforce social mores and while it can be used for evil it can also be used for good.

The express description given above was to immediately punish every player at the table simply because one player makes a suggestion when their character isn't personally present. I would call that, while not "evil," certainly an EXTREMELY dickish approach. It is ostracization, it is turning players against one another for your own benefit.

Also, the bits I cut out after this? That's communicating, not peer pressure. You're actually talking to them, and willing to engage with what they have to say. Or so I would assume. Peer pressure is, as the quoted paragraphs state, doing things like punishing everyone else in the group because one person did something out of line. It is vilifying someone in a way that coerces everyone else to turn against them. It is deeply unacceptable and I would never, in a million years, do ANYTHING like that to ANYONE, whether at my table or in general. I consider such behavior openly despicable.

I agree with you about punishing players by messing with their character is just a bad way to handle things though.

How about punishing players by messing with other players' characters? Because that's literally something you apparently signed up for, when you said the rest of the passage was fine.

 

[MGibster]

"those who use the books as a defense when you rule them out of line should be excluded from the campaign."

DM's word is law. Reference the book, and expect to be kicked out. That is the literal meaning of the text presented.

I interpreted it as Gygax talking about someone we might refer to as a rule's lawyer. They can be quite annoying.

Also, the bits I cut out after this? That's communicating, not peer pressure. You're actually talking to them, and willing to engage with what they have to say. Or so I would assume.

Peer pressure can be direct or indirect communication. Telling another player, "Knock off the sexism, Bob" is a form of peer pressure.

How about punishing players by messing with other players' characters? Because that's literally something you apparently signed up for, when you said the rest of the passage was fine.

You are correct. My bad. I missed that part.