I have Heroes of Shadows

That's the problem, I don't remember. I swear it was a Design and Development or similar type interview, or maybe a post by one of the writers, but I can't find it. Hell, maybe it was a fever dream. :p

But yeah, Domination = Tyranny does make more sense.

Oh I've had those fevered dreams before, no biggy.

Here is how I see the arch types playing out.

Domination: Dominatrix.

Terror: Boogy Man

Fury: The Hulk only shorter

Greed: An average American(kidding!)
 

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Taking away some choices, especially at level 1 is a good design decision.
It's really not and I couldn't disagree with this idea more if I tried. The vampire being so on rails makes it one of the most bland and uninteresting classes in 4E. There will be no diversity practically between any two players and that's just boring.
 

I picked up Heroes of Shadow at my FLGS last night. I was not at all expecting to see it in stores yet, so I was pleasantly surprised.

We had a new game starting last night, so I convinced the DM to let me test out the Vampire. We were level 5. I made a Human Vampire. It turned out to be a fairly good striker and I never had any trouble running out of healing surges. Also, obviously, I took Durable as a feat.

Once, I was able to take advantage of Blood is Life: "during a rest, when you have surplus surges, you go back to your starting value and heal to full" power. Twice, I was able to spend a surge on Feral Assault to gain the extra 2d8 damage.

The most important thing is temporary hit points. The Vampire has a way to give himself temps and we had a Valor Bard also giving out temps. I'm not sure how survivable the Vampire would be without that ability.
 

It's really not and I couldn't disagree with this idea more if I tried. The vampire being so on rails makes it one of the most bland and uninteresting classes in 4E. There will be no diversity practically between any two players and that's just boring.

The thing here is that some people like fewer options and less analysis paralysis when character building. It's like the Slayer. I'm not going to want to play a slayer ever; it strikes me as rigid and tactically dull. But there are a couple of players at each of my 4e tables who prefer this over the more intricate orthodox fighters.

And there might not be much diversity between two vampires - but so what? There's a lot of clear water between a vampire and any other class. And when you're breaking the class mold it's much more sensible to lock down the options to prevent accidental monsters being created.
 

We had a new game starting last night, so I convinced the DM to let me test out the Vampire. We were level 5. I made a Human Vampire. It turned out to be a fairly good striker and I never had any trouble running out of healing surges. Also, obviously, I took Durable as a feat.
So far I've been very unimpressed with them as a striker, but in fairness they do have some control options. It reminds me of the Oassassin in this way, immense work to get some middling control effects out of it and only average damage when you succeed. Their damage is immensely underwhelming without surges to spare, so I've noticed that non-durable taking vampires are going to struggle hard. In the scenarios I try the vampire often has a lot of difficulty going in and on the default surges just can't function well (Hazards -> Skill Challenges -> Traps before or during encounters). At the same time I can tell you what really eliminates the problem here and that's durable. Durable makes or breaks the vampire, because as you say you can often get that extra damage feature if you have surges to spare. 4 surges means that you can't have a bad encounter and be screwed, plus can usually spare surges for extra damage (which they really need).

In some ways I feel the vampire gets a lot from Durable and the other feat to increase surge value. Ironically this means 2 of the races introduced in HoS are not great choices for the vampire. The Vrylokas -2 penalty to surges really punishes the vampire, who on low HP is basically a walking target (bearing in mind regeneration does *not* function under 0 HP). At the same time the Vryloka's racial can generate a good amount of THP, so if you get it you should be set (combined with the vampires other THP options). A shade vampire is arguably one of the saddest sights in 4E. A shade vampire without durable is practically the most useless character in 4th edition.

Overall though this is pretty much a complete trap option for new players and won't offer enough for anyone who is actually very system savvy. It's hard to figure out who this class is actually for. It's a distinctly underpowered class, which relies heavily on playing it near perfectly (and never ever having a bad day dice wise) to succeed and with a gimmick that is interesting or an achilles heel.
The thing here is that some people like fewer options and less analysis paralysis when character building. It's like the Slayer. I'm not going to want to play a slayer ever; it strikes me as rigid and tactically dull. But there are a couple of players at each of my 4e tables who prefer this over the more intricate orthodox fighters.
The slayer/Knight might be rigid and have few choices, but the vampire is even WORSE in this regard. Slayers and Knights can at least be differentiated a few ways, by stances/weapons and they get more paragon path and utility power choices. There are literally around seven total vampire builds. That's it. That's not fewer options, that's just phoning it in.

Edit: Of course the genuine irony of the vampire is to abuse Half-Elf, take a vampire at-will with your racial and the feat that makes you count as MCing into vampire (due to taking their at-will). Then just paragon multiclass to steal the vampires best stuff without taking any of the disadvantages. The dominate power is a particularly good target for many cha primary classes.
 
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I do wonder if "Essentials" isn't just an acquiescence to the fact that they couldn't provide support for the other classes precisely because of the options. I mean, a new essentials build is a few powers and a couple of feats. The old classes demanded much more attention, because there were so many choices to be made. They probably are getting the most bang for their buck by releasing essentials classes with minimal starting customization.
 

That is why I am sometimes so very critical of these classes. Due to my suspicion they are increasingly going to "Publish and forget" as the new model, if they don't get it right the first time a class is going to be doomed. It really isn't so much of a surprise to me that the builds from HoS I do like the Blackguard, Necromancer (Undecided on the Nethermancer, but the Evard's based PP is awesome) and many of the new general powers are because they are based on classes with support to use them. A Fury blackguard has a pretty pointless at-will for example, but it doesn't matter much when you can get another good at-will from the paladin class (say by being human) like valiant smite (then use the skill domain if you can access it to turn Valiant Smite into an at-will MBA!). The book isn't quite as bad as I thought it was going to be in fairness now I've seen the vast majority of it - but overall I am very disappointed with the direction 4E is going as indicated by this book. It looks like support is going to just drop for pre-essentials classes.

Well unless you're a fighter, wizard or cleric of course. So RIP Runepriest, Seeker and Artificer. Your chance to get support I feel has passed.
 
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Well unless you're a fighter, wizard or cleric of course. So RIP Runepriest, Seeker and Artificer. Your chance to get support I feel has passed.
Unless you're a Wizard or a WIS Cleric, yes. If you're a Fighter or STR Cleric, the only pass-through support you'll be picking up is utilities.
 

Fighters have 414 powers, they aren't in any danger of running out of options :P

I am thinking that the strength cleric may get obliterated from the game entirely with the CC. We'll have to see on that but in fairness, many of the powers in HoS are usable for a strength cleric. Many of them don't hit whatsoever and have no riders that require wisdom, so even strength clerics can use these. In fact a strength/con melee cleric build with features like toughness can get more out of some of these powers than a less defensively inclined wisdom cleric.
 


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