I have Heroes of Shadows

[WalterKovacs]

Whoa, that was quick, thanks! I feel stupid though, it had already been previewed mostly! Strangely enough, second level is the most problematic... It's actually not swappable? I mean, it doesn't specify 2nd level in the power entry? And can you actually stat the bonuses? Thanks again!

The level 2 utility is numbered, so it should be swappable, it's just the only option presented in the book.

THP is 5 per tier, and the defense bonus is +2.

 

[LordArchaon]

The level 2 utility is numbered, so it should be swappable, it's just the only option presented in the book.

THP is 5 per tier, and the defense bonus is +2.

I can finally build my Blackguard, thanks A LOT!!

 

[Nausicaa]

For binders I'm assuming?

At level 1 you have a choice of a single target ranged attack. It does force damage and ongoing (on a hit), and the enemy can take a move action to make an opposed Acro or Athletics check against you to end the damage (or save). The other is an area burst 1, deals necro damage and immobilizes (save ends) on a hit, half damage and slows (save ends) on a miss, as an effect it creates an encounter long zone which immobilizes until EoNT any creature that willingly enters the zone.

At 5 you have a choice of a single target ranged attack, effectively reliable, deals cold damage and slows (s/e) on a hit. The other is an area burst 1, deals necrotic damage and slow (s/e) on a hit, as an effect creates an encounterlong zone which gives you an at-will OA that triggers off an enemy entering the zone willingly or ending it's turn there. It deals fixed damage (5+Cha mod necro) and slows (s/e). If they are already slow when you hit them with that power it instead immobilizes and 10 ongoing necro (s/e both).

Mmm ok... it seems these dailies are a mixed bag, nothing serious. Probably you are going better taking old starlock or feylock dailies, which have a really strong innate control.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Mmm ok... it seems these dailies are a mixed bag, nothing serious. Probably you are going better taking old starlock or feylock dailies, which have a really strong innate control.

It does depend on what you are looking for. The overall theme of the 'binder' seems to fit it's name, tying up enemies though imobilzation, slowing, and putting them in zones that are diffcult to leave, etc. They are more of a "we'll deal with you later" type of controller than the kind that debuffs someone to help focus fire on it.

 

[Destil]

I am currently trying to teach an old ADnD player how that game works... and choices at level 1 are overwhelming.

Note: This is basically what the "builds" for each class are. All your level one choices.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

It's really not and I couldn't disagree with this idea more if I tried. The vampire being so on rails makes it one of the most bland and uninteresting classes in 4E. There will be no diversity practically between any two players and that's just boring.

Each person has their own preferences, of course. However, I can tell you from experience that sometimes less choice IS better.

Most classes in D&D/1e/2e had virtually no choices at all at first level. Basically your only choice was what weapon you'd use and your character's personality. But for most people, that was enough to differentiate 2 players. And most people played only one D&D game that would go on for a year or two before switching characters. So, you'd see a maximum of 2 fighters in that time.

Back when we played 2e, it was understood that 2 players of any one class were going to be identical. So, if you didn't want to be the same as someone else, you chose a class no one else was playing. Even classes that had some choice ended up pretty much identical. There were only so many good 1st level spells, so every wizard had some variation on the same spells.

When we switched to 3e, there was a LOT more choice. Between feats, multiclassing each time you leveled, many more books coming out, and so on....No two characters were exactly the same. But with the benefit that brought, it also brought just as many problems.

It wasn't until recently that I realized how much I missed a LACK of options. The simple fact remains that more options means more that all the members of the group have to know and keep track of(especially the DM), and it means the more opportunity there is for power gaming and min-maxing. More choices=more broken. It's that simple.

That's why my game recently switched to essentials only. So far, it has caused the players in the game to concentrate more on what's going on IN the game and less on spending weeks scouring message boards and books looking for the perfect power to take each time they level.

 

[Zaran]

The thing here is that some people like fewer options and less analysis paralysis when character building. It's like the Slayer. I'm not going to want to play a slayer ever; it strikes me as rigid and tactically dull. But there are a couple of players at each of my 4e tables who prefer this over the more intricate orthodox fighters.

And there might not be much diversity between two vampires - but so what? There's a lot of clear water between a vampire and any other class. And when you're breaking the class mold it's much more sensible to lock down the options to prevent accidental monsters being created.

I always felt that the Essentials characters were all designed for people who didn't want to make alot of descisions. While I do not want to play an eCharacter, the fact that they exist didn't bother me because I happen to know at least one player that would be perfectly happy with that kind of character. But having no power choices at all? I think that goes against the idea of 4th edition's versatility.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Note: This is basically what the "builds" for each class are. All your level one choices.

Too bad, i can´t go into builder and select the choice and have a character.

The idea with builds is good. Heroes Books just take it a bit further. With better integration, builds would be great.

All in all, slayers and knights are also builds of the same class. You can swap most powers with each other. Hunter and scout also share the same powers.

Again: a good class design would be a very low number pf choices at level 1 and some small choices spread over each level. But choices that are mostly independant from each other. D&D 3.5 only had very narrow classes, but multiclassing and prestige classes allowed for variety, so did feats.

Classes besides the fighter would have been a lot better supported, if there didn´t have to be a 2-weapon fighter build. If multiclass rules allowed for a relative easy way to get 2 weapon fighting work (more easy power swaps, less feat intensive), we had saved a lot of trouble.

So I am still willing to defend my point: more streamlined classes, more easily accesible multiclassing. Maybe themes. And even with streamlined options, your choices are overwhelming. (Not that most PHB 1 classes had a choice in their powers at level 1...)

 

[Gladius Legis]

Can you give a rundown of the daily powers Blackguards get in Paragon and Epic Tiers?

 

[WalterKovacs]

Can you give a rundown of the daily powers Blackguards get in Paragon and Epic Tiers?

At 15 there are two "Avatar" powers. Basically rages for Blackguards. Melee attack, 3[W] damage, half on a miss. A of Slaughter gives you a +4 to damage rolls, and 1/round when you hit you can cleave for 10 necro into another enemy. A of Subjucation gives you +2 to attack rolls, 5 thp at the start of each turn and 1/round as a minor you can deal 5 dmg to an ally to give them 10thp.

At 19 you get smites. These are No Actions that trigger off hitting with an at-will against an adjacent enemy. [BTW, these are just fine for Challadins, they don't reference Strength or Charisma for that matter] Plundering Smite adds 10 necro, plus an additional 10 ongoing necro (s/e), with a -2 to the saves, and you get 10 hp each time the target takes the ongoing damge. Ruinous Smite deals 25 extra damage, knocks the target prone and it can't stand up while you are adjacent to it (s/e). You end up granting c/a until EoNT though.

25 has a choice between Ravenous Shadows and Venemous Infection. The former conjures a sustainable wall of darkness that emits cold/necro damage, and when it appears you make an atack against any in or adjacent to the wall to immobilizes until EoNT, and slides them into the wall if they were adjacent. It is a weapon atack, so no holy symbol necessary. The latter is a weapon attack that deals ongoing acid/poison damage. When the target first becomes bloodies, or dies, it deals auto acid/poison damage in a close blast 3 [you determine direction from the source.]

At 29, there is one option given, Avatar of Vice. 5[w], half on miss. It's effects are that you deal extra necro damage equal to CHA mod, you get 10 thp [or add 5 to the thp you get from the power] when you hit 1/turn, and your dread smite becomes rechargeable when you have none left.