I love it when Skill Challenges Click

[Wik]

When I first ran 4e, I had a problem (like a lot of people) running skill challenges. I didn't really "grok" them, and after one or two super failed attempts, I dropped them and focused on combat challenges and exploration.

After reading Stalker0s take on Skill Challenges, I jumped right back in, and things got better - I suddenly started enjoying them again. And I've become comfortable enough to just kind of take that basic framework and wing it - I'm an adherent to the "Seat of your Pants" school of GMing, for sure.

So today I ran a skill challenge. The PCs were pushing a large metal cart along rails, trying to outrun a wave of millions of highly poisonous spiders, as well as a monstrous spider that was HUGE. The PCs knew that one bite from these spiders was near fatal. So they ran like hell.

I divided the challenge up into rounds - the PCs needed three successes (there are 5 PCs in the group) to maintain the distance with the spiders, and each success over this increased the gap (and each failure decreased it). Each round, the PCs could choose an action to keep that cart moving.

The first two rounds were just running and keeping the thing moving. We had our alchemist dropping fire bombs to deter the spiders (auto successes), we had people pushing the cart like mad, and we had thieves oiling the wheels. The cart picked up speed, and began barrelling down the hallway.

We then had archers in the eaves ahead firing down on the PCs (basically, a round of combat in which the PCs didn't fight back), drow aberrations trying to block the rails (and getting blasted out of the way by the bard using a shout power), and the always popular "Hit that thing to stop the doors from closing" portion of the skill challenge.

Each round was a different "theme" - speed the cart up, dodge incoming arrow fire, clear the tracks, prevent the doors from closing, and then "holy crap, we need to stop this cart!" And there were roleplaying moments within the challenge, as well - the NPCs shooting worried looks at the PCs, and some moments of nonverbal communication between the two groups that were just awesome. My personal favourite, though, is when the bard took a spear that was wedged in the front of the cart (he was riding on the outside) and a shield and basically "jousted" with an aberration that was blocking the track - naturally, he got knocked beneath the cart, and was being dragged along (I know the player, so I kind of fudged things to make sure he'd fail, because he'd enjoy it a lot more than if he succeeded).

The point of all this is, to those of you who that think skill challenges are just die-rolling - god, no. And you don't need meticulous planning, either. You just need to set up a situation where the PCs have multiple options, and where the players aren't just looking at their character sheets trying to figure out how they can use their +14 skill for a challenge that doesn't need it (though there was a bit of that in this challenge, it didn't really hurt things).

Definitely one of the high points of my GMing 4e so far.

 

[El Mahdi]

deleted

 

[blargney the second]

This was far and away the coolest skill challenge that you've run yet, Wik!

There were several things that you did that made it such a success:
1) There was a huge variety of options for us to use, so every player could contribute meaningfully.
2) There were tasks that varied in difficulty from auto-success to nearly impossible. We could use a good idea with our crappy skills and pull out successes. I liked this MUCH better than the previously-used level-based static DCs because it felt more realistic.
3) You allowed us to choose between a couple of consequences for failed attempts, like taking damage or breaking our tools. It really felt like those split-second decisions you make when the fit hits the shan.
4) Great descriptions of the sights, sounds, and sensations of the chase that brought the whole thing to life.

Well done! A+
-blarg

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm learning from this. I've got some issues of chronic boredom with the "roll a skill against a DC over and over again and describe the effects" thing that Skill Challenges are by default, so I've been looking for ways to add things like unique character powers, different "themes," consequential decisions, etc.

So this example helps me out, giving me some things to chew on the next time I try and look at the SC and see what I can do to make it actually fun for me.

 

[Wik]

A few things I learned from this most recent Skill Challenge:

1) Keep it loose. I arranged this encounter on a loose framework, with each "round" of the challenge (there were five rounds) having a sort of theme to it. The skills for each round were not set in stone (I actually had no idea what they were) but I generally listened to the players and rolled with their ideas. I also tried to change the nature of events, so that it wasn't a matter of "I roll athletics... again."

2) Attack rolls can be used in a skill challenge (OR "You don't need to only use skills in a skill challenge). There were parts where the rogues were shooting at gears to prevent a door from closing. Or where the Bard "jousted" with a Drow Aberration. And so on.

3) Keep the role-playing in there. We had some moments of interaction, where the PCs were trying to get the NPCs involved in aiding the escape (as opposed to just hiding in the cart). My favourite part was where one of the NPCs was using his bow to fire at the giant spider chasing him. The minotaur, upset that the NPC wasn't helping, grabbed the bow and threw it away. A moment later, archers started shooting at the cart, and the NPC shot a look at the minotaur that basically said "hey, if only I had a bow right now...."

4) Get animated. ONce I started moving, miming the actions of some of the PCs, I got super excited in the challenge. And it carried to the PCs. The first round was very much a "skill challenge", with players looking at their sheet and trying to figure out a rationale for their skills. By the last round, I don't think they were seeing it as a skill challenge.

5) Fudge. I fudged this encounter, by figuring out what each player likes and dislikes, and tailoring some of the DCs to reflect that. For example, I messed with the numbers a bit so that the bard would get knocked underneath the cart, hanging on for dear life (he got to put his spider climb boots to good use!). And any time a PC was hit with a negative status effect that was no fun (Dazed, for example), I'd say "Hey, if you can come up with a reason to get rid of this status effect and pay a price, I'll let you". Which worked out well, and I'll be doing from now on.

6) Don't be afraid of auto successes... and auto failures. Our paladin trying to use diplomacy to get the NPCs to help push was destined for failure, since he didn't speak their language (and insisted on doing it when he was reminded of this fact). The Bard throwing a vial of alchemists fire at a swarm of tiny spiders to slow them down.... auto success. Pushing the brake on the cart to slow it down - auto success. And so on.

***

Anyways, I'm busy trying to figure out what my next skill challenge will be. I have a hazy idea, but once it's done, I hope it works out okay. I have a sneaky feeling it'll be an Indiana Jones "red line" sort of skill challenge, which is an entirely different beast than this one was. But it could be interesting - imagine a skill challenge where the PLAYERS dictate the scene? (So the PC that wants to use a diplomacy check decides to stage a scene where he's negotiating safe passage, while the endurance-using guy describes carrying the party's gear on his lonesome up a long mountain so everyone else can move at a fair pace....)

 

[delericho]

The point of all this is, to those of you who that think skill challenges are just die-rolling - god, no.

I think this is the key point. A Skill Challenge can just be an exercise in dice rolling, and will turn out to be a boring Skill Challenge. Of course, the same is also true of combat.

But by using the dice rolls as a foundation, and building on top of it, you can create something much more engaging. And that, I think, is the big strength of the Skill Challenge concept - it formalises the foundation, allowing groups to focus on the (more interesting?) building work.

Also, sounds like a good Challenge. Very impressive.

 

[Somebloke]

I know what you mean, Wik.

It took me four levels before I finally clicked with skill challeneges. Now that I've gotten a feel for how they're meant to flow my group has a huge amount of fun with them.

 

[Wik]

Oh, yeah. One last thing: Don't write up HUGE skill challenge rules for the challenge! They tend to just get you confused and force you to think within the box. Those massive skill challenges in the DMG 2 are just crazy long. Ignore them!

You're much better off flexing your improv muscles in a skill challenge. Srsly, guys.

Here, for those interested, are the entirety of my notes for what wound up being a skill challenge more than an hour long (and we play pretty quickly):

Goal: Get Rail Cart to Entrance Way, avoid swarm of spiders, get them to the light, and then fight solo.

Challenge is five rounds. Some challenge ideas: Aberrations block rails, Pass-By a battle of Eladrin, Archers on the Ledge take shots at PCs not on Rail, Closing Door (shoot the gears!), Shoot out Switch to prevent cart from stopping, Aberration jumps aboard cart and tries to slow it down.

DC for checks is 25ish. 3 success per round. 2 Successes = Spiders get 3 squares closer, 1 success = spiders get 5 squares closer. 4 successes = spiders get 3 squares further away, 5 successes = spiders get 5 squares further away.

And that's it. I looked at my notes all of once during the challenge, and then threw 'em away. We didn't use all of the possibilities (the PCs didn't have to shoot out the railway switch, and unfortunately, no Aberration was able to jump on the rail), and some kind of were less interesting than I imagined (the archers shooting at the PCs weren't as crazy fun as I'd hoped, though they were still interesting, and the Eladrin passing by just wound up being a scene, as opposed to something the PCs decided to interact... although they did "interact" with the Eladrin that didn't see the cart coming behind him...).

Anyways, yeah. Del has it squarely - Skill Challenges are presented as die-rolling exercises, and it can be hard to break out of that mode of thinking. But I highly recommend the effort - once you start thinking of them in terms of set piece action scenes (or investigation montages, or "red line adventure", or whatever), they are just as exciting - if not moreso!- than 4e combats.

One last benefit - Skill Challenges are a great way to give the PCs more XP, should you so choose. Rather than making all XP gained in combat (or, at least, most of it), you can put XP in the challenges. If you use challenges to connect the combats, the PCs are getting XP almost continuosly. For my group, that's a benefit - we play short, rather intense sessions.