D&D 5E I thought that I had seen a Range limit to the sneak attack with the Ranged Weapon, 30 feet

[Athinar]

I am asking D&D Team via Email but from the answer back in 2014 from Twitter was

Frank Foulis @darthJerod
@MikeMearls Can thrown weapons be used for sneak attack damage? Seems to go against the qualifiers of sneak attack being Ranged-Finesse
Mike Mearls @MikeMearls
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@darthJerod yes, they can. basically, as a DM feel free to let the rogue sneak attack with anything that deals a d6 or less
4:25 PM - 25 Jul 2014


Zoltar commented on Sneak attack d6.
in response to zoltar:
@darthJerod yes, they can. basically, as a DM feel free to let the rogue sneak attack with anything that deals a d6 or less — Mike Mearls @MikeMearls) July 25, 2014
If you read the tweet date is one of the first tweet about 5e, when Master Mike was the only designer that answer rule questions. (Mike and Jeremy are the lead designers as you can read in PHB)
Now Master Jeremy is the official Rules Sage and you can ask to him at @JeremyECrawford on twitter
or ask to D&D Team at sageadvice@wizards.com
My advice is to follow Master Mike answer and find your way outside the Mud Forest.


Not out of thin air but from common sense and RAW to boot

 

[Athinar]

Page 147 Weapon Properties: Thrown:

If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for the attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with that weapon. For example, if you throw a handaxe, you use your strength, but if you throw a dagger, you can use either your strength or your dagger, since the dagger has the finesse property


Page 96 Sneak Attack:
The attack must use the finesse or a ranged weapon (thrown property qualifies it as a Ranged Weapon)

If the Melee Weapon has the Property Range and has the (Range XX/XXX) in it list then it can be used as both a Melee and Range weapon and if it does a d6 or less then it can be used to "Sneak Attack"

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/01/sneak-attack-d6/

Twitter

Frank Foulis [MENTION=7314]darth[/MENTION]Jerod
[MENTION=32417]MikeM[/MENTION]earls Can thrown weapons be used for sneak attack damage? Seems to go against the qualifiers of sneak attack being Ranged-Finesse
Mike Mearls [MENTION=32417]MikeM[/MENTION]earls
Follow
[MENTION=7314]darth[/MENTION]Jerod yes, they can. basically, as a DM feel free to let the rogue sneak attack with anything that deals a d6 or less

Zoltar commented on Sneak attack d6.
in response to zoltar:
[MENTION=7314]darth[/MENTION]Jerod yes, they can. basically, as a DM feel free to let the rogue sneak attack with anything that deals a d6 or less — Mike Mearls [MENTION=32417]MikeM[/MENTION]earls) July 25, 2014
If you read the tweet date is one of the first tweet about 5e, when Master Mike was the only designer that answer rule questions. (Mike and Jeremy are the lead designers as you can read in PHB)
Now Master Jeremy is the official Rules Sage and you can ask to him at [MENTION=4036]Jeremy[/MENTION]ECrawford on twitter
or ask to D&D Team at sageadvice@wizards.com
My advice is to follow Master Mike answer and find your way outside the Mud Forest.

 

[Athinar]

Page 195 Ranged Attacks: (does not say Range Weapons)
When you make a ranged attack, you fire a bow or a crossbow, hurl a handaxe, or otherwise send projectiles to strike a foe at a distance. A monster might shoot spines from it's tail. Many spells also involve making a ranged attack

 

[Paraxis]

It has been explained to you multiple times that there are "ranged attacks", "ranged weapon attacks", and "ranged weapons" these things are different things.

Not all ranged attacks are ranged weapon attacks, many spells for instance.

Not all ranged weapon attacks are made with ranged weapons, example throwing a spear or a manticore shooting tail spikes.

Sneak attacks need to be made with "ranged weapons", they can not be made with a rogue who polymorphs into a manticore, they can not be made with attack spells like eldritch blasts, and they can not be made with melee weapons just because said weapon has the thrown property like a spear.

 

[Zinnger]

Page 195 Ranged Attacks: (does not say Range Weapons)
When you make a ranged attack, you fire a bow or a crossbow, hurl a handaxe, or otherwise send projectiles to strike a foe at a distance. A monster might shoot spines from it's tail. Many spells also involve making a ranged attack

How cool is that... According to this my rogue can pick up a chair and use it as an improvised weapon and make a "ranged attack" and do sneak attack damage. Not sure if that would be allowed at our table.

 

[Zinnger]

Thanks to all of you who pointed out my error about getting only two turns of actions. I wonder who will be the first rogue thief to get FOUR sneak attacks in one round.

1) 17th level Rogue Thief allowed two turns on first round of combat
2) Use bonus action on first turn to attack with a Scimitar of Speed and deal sneak attack damage (1). Also Mark the target as per pg. 271 DMG.
3) Set up Ready Action to strike when the next person in initiative order takes their action... Strike again using your reaction for sneak attack damage (2).
4) Strike target again with the second turn during combat which is allowed as a level 17 Rogue Thief at -10 initiative order. Deal sneak attack damage (3)
5) Target moves away and allows an Opportunity Attack as per the Mark rules so it gets hit again which does not need to use the Reaction. This is another turn and therefore allows Sneak Attack damage again. (4)

Gotta love the Rogues.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Sneak attacks need to be made with "ranged weapons", they can not be made with a rogue who polymorphs into a manticore, they can not be made with attack spells like eldritch blasts, and they can not be made with melee weapons just because said weapon has the thrown property like a spear.

Wait, where in the rules does it say a weapon that is used at range is not a ranged weapon?

 

[Paraxis]

Wait, where in the rules does it say a weapon that is used at range is not a ranged weapon?

It says that there are only two types of weapons either melee or ranged.

A dart is a thrown ranged weapon, a dagger is a melee weapon that can be thrown there is a difference.

The Weapons table shows the most common weapons used in the worlds of D&D, their price and weight, the damage they deal when they hit, and any special properties they possess. Every weapon is classified as either melee or ranged. A melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet of you, whereas a ranged weapon is used to attack a target at a distance. - pg 146 PHB

It makes a difference with certain abilities some things say they can be used with or on "ranged weapon attacks" and that is an attack made with any weapon at all that is a ranged attack like a thrown spear. Other things say they work with or on "ranged weapons" which are only the weapons that are classified on the chart as ranged, a melee weapon with the thrown property is not a "ranged weapon".

A fighter doesn't benefit from the +2 bonus to hit from archery fighting style, when he throws a melee weapon like a spear, hand axe, or dagger.

A rogue can't sneak attack when he throws a hand axe.

The sharpshooter feat, the first two benefits apply to any "ranged weapon attack" this would include throwing a spear or hand axe. The third benefit of being able to take a -5 penalty to hit for a +10 bonus to damage does not work unless the attack is made with a "ranged weapon" like a bow, dart, blowgun, crossbow it does not work with a thrown melee weapon like a spear or dagger.

There is only one melee weapon that can be used to make a sneak attack when thrown and that is the dagger, not because it is thrown or ranged but because it is finesse.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

The Weapons table shows the most common weapons used in the worlds of D&D, their price and weight, the damage they deal when they hit, and any special properties they possess. Every weapon is classified as either melee or ranged. A melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet of you, whereas a ranged weapon is used to attack a target at a distance. - pg 146 PHB

By this definition, a thrown weapon is a ranged weapon because it is used to attack a target at a distance.

It says they are classified in the table as either melee or ranged. Which makes sense for organizing them and displaying them. But if you assume the second sentence is a rule independent of the table, it means that any weapon used at range is a "Ranged Weapon".

It makes a difference with certain abilities some things say they can be used with or on "ranged weapon attacks" and that is an attack made with any weapon at all that is a ranged attack like a thrown spear. Other things say they work with or on "ranged weapons" which are only the weapons that are classified on the chart as ranged, a melee weapon with the thrown property is not a "ranged weapon".

How do we know that? Couldn't the PHB be written by multiple authors, one of which used "Ranged Weapons" while another one used "Ranged Weapon Attacks" even though they both meant the same thing and the editors assumed they meant the same thing? Besides, how do we know that "Ranged Weapon Attacks" include include thrown weapons? Wouldn't the definition of a "Ranged Weapon Attack" be an attack with a "Ranged Weapon"? If "Ranged Weapons" are only things that are under the "Ranged Weapon" category in the equipment section that would imply that "Ranged Weapon Attacks" only work with bows and the like.

The sharpshooter feat, the first two benefits apply to any "ranged weapon attack" this would include throwing a spear or hand axe. The third benefit of being able to take a -5 penalty to hit for a +10 bonus to damage does not work unless the attack is made with a "ranged weapon" like a bow, dart, blowgun, crossbow it does not work with a thrown melee weapon like a spear or dagger.

It seems unlikely that they'd make a feat and make it only partially effective if you are using thrown weapons. The feat is then a trap if you are throwing weapons. They said they were trying to avoid traps. I think it's much more likely that the book was written by humans who aren't entirely consistent in how they write things. Especially with the fast and loose way the rules are written in general and the number of times that Mearls and Crawford have said that the rules are meant to be interpreted with common sense.

Plus, there doesn't appear to be any balance issues with allowing thrown weapons in these situations. It seems like restricting things like to restrict things.

 

[Athinar]

How cool is that... According to this my rogue can pick up a chair and use it as an improvised weapon and make a "ranged attack" and do sneak attack damage. Not sure if that would be allowed at our table.

A Chair as a melee weapon would be a two handed improvised Weapon, I think, I could be wrong, so this improvised weapon "Chair" is closest to what weapon in the list?
Morningstar, Great Sword, War Hammer or a Shield? I thank Shield would be the closest and the only person who could sneak attack with a shield would be Captain America.

they use chairs and whips to fend off loins and tigers and bears in the Circus

so would the chair have the Ranged Property listed for any of those weapons, no

So I too would not allow a sneak attack with a chair or table or any furniture of any type but would allow sneak attack with breakfast cereals and orangutans