D&D (2024) If short rest abilities become Prof # tiimes per day?

[Horwath]

Yeah I mean, it went off the assumption that people stop, look around, bind wounds, etc. between encounters.

Although if you actually do run into multiple encounters back to back in 4e, you're probably going to die. Had that happen twice, the first time was a very long slog with several characters near death. The second was a TPK.

Basically, 4e assumes you have no reason to hold back using Encounter powers. So you don't. Which can cause serious havoc if they aren't allowed to refresh.

And if you conserve encounter abilities "just in case", battles go longer than they really should. It's a real Catch 22.

The only way around it is to agree with the players they will always get their encounter powers back, which might bother some people's immersion.

Personally, what I would have done is just say encounter powers refresh whenever you roll initiative, and the purpose of resting is to recover hit points.

Well, 5 min rests or similar time were a thing in most battles in non-modern world.

You could only be in melee combat of shield phalanx for a minute or so before your combat capability falls of drastically.

That's why they had(if they had enough soldiers) front line rotations in battles.

Try to shoot a bow that you can barely draw full length. then try it 10 times. You'll need a breather of couple of minutes.

 

[NaturalZero]

Basically, 4e assumes you have no reason to hold back using Encounter powers. So you don't. Which can cause serious havoc if they aren't allowed to refresh.

And if you conserve encounter abilities "just in case", battles go longer than they really should. It's a real Catch 22.

I see this all the time in 5e too though, with people using powers under the assumption that they'll get a short rest and then getting vetoed by party members without short rest recovery who don't want to stop. It's a point of party friction that didn't exist in 4e and becomes a potential issue in 5e without any compelling upside.

The only way around it is to agree with the players they will always get their encounter powers back, which might bother some people's immersion.

I'm not sure how it's an immersion issue. If your magic power regenerates in 5 minutes or an hour, is one magic power thing more believable than the other? Why it would be more immersive for the fighter to take an hour to recovery the ability to trip someone, versus a 5 minute breather?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Or we could give up on the legacy attrition-based design and go per-encounter.

No thanks. Without attrition only mechanical stakes in any battle are death or nothing. And once you get resurrection magic, TPK or nothing.
I really, really don't want that.

 

[Minigiant]

Or we could give up on the legacy attrition-based design and go per-encounter.

No, thanks anyway.

That said, one thing I mentioned in some "If I governed D&D's next edition" thread is to look at how classes would work with short and long rests. That is, how would they balance if they only had short rests, and only long rests? That would at least be a step towards satisfying people who want all their abilities per encounter and those who desire more strategic planning.

I'd rather not.

Long days should feel different. Adventures where there's no time to properly rest, or nowhere safe to rest, should feel different.

I'd rather add Extended Rests (require a safe place where you can take your guard down and be genuinely comfortable) as the only way to immediately get everything restored, and keep Long and Short rests.

I'd be fine with most class abilities becoming short rest, or with some types of abilities being one and some the other, regardless of class, but I'm also fine with the asymmetry of 5e.

What I mean by the above, btw, is something like:

All class features that aren't at-will are per encounter, all spells are per day (i'd still let the warlock break this but it would be via infusions and boons), everyone regains HP as written now, racial abilities are generally short rest, etc, and per encounter abilites would just refresh when an encounter ends and doesn't immediately lead into another encounter. Fighters don't need to be on the same resource recovery track as wizards. They just need to contribute in fun ways to all three pillars, and have a both super simple and complex options.

I hope for when we actually get to6th edition, the game goes to a 3 types of rest model (short, long, extended) and offers a rest variants in the PHB and DMG. This way groups can choose

So for a Wizard, Cantrips and Signature Spells would be At Will, Arcane Recovery would be Short Rest, Level 1-5 Spells would be Long Rest, and Level 6-9 Spells and Magic Formulas would be Extended Rest .

A Warlock would get Least, Lesser, Greater, and Dark Invocations again each would run on the different schedule.

Rest Model	At Will (Greens)	Short Rest (Reds)	Long Rest (Blues)	Extended Rest (Blacks)
Epic	At will	2 * Prof Mod rest per ER	Prof Mod per ER	8 hours
Heroic	At will	5 minutes	1 hour	8 hours
Gritty	5 minutes	1 hour	8 hours	3 days
Extra Gritty	1 hour	8 hours	1 week	4 weeks

 

[Seramus]

I'm going to sit in my corner and wave my little "I ♡ encounter powers" flag.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Warlock gets a "commune with patron" ability prof bonus times per day, that lets them get their spell slots back.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No thanks. Without attrition only mechanical stakes in any battle are death or nothing.

As opposed to death or nothing in the next fight on. The problem with the attrition model is if the party blow their resources in one battle, they are left unable to survive the next one. Unless the can take a rest. And if they can take a rest they can take a rest after every battle.

Attrition never really worked. Even back in 1st edition is was just a case of slogging back to town when you ran out of resources, then slogging back to the dungeon again.

 

[Horwath]

many spells could be made to be at-will/encounter(short rest)/daily(long rest) recharge power.

or have 5min/8hrs recharge time on spell slots.

I.E.
you spend your 3rd level slot on fireball.

8hr recharge: 8d6, 20ft radius
5min recharge: 5d6, 10ft radius
at-will: 3d6, 5ft radius

Cure wounds:
8hr recharge: 1d12 per spell level
5min recharge: 1d4 per spell level
at-will heals to max total HP of 1HP per level.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

As opposed to death or nothing in the next fight on. The problem with the attrition model is if the party blow their resources in one battle, they are left unable to survive the next one. Unless the can take a rest. And if they can take a rest they can take a rest after every battle.

Attrition never really worked. Even back in 1st edition is was just a case of slogging back to town when you ran out of resources, then slogging back to the dungeon again.

Then we must conclude that the game simply cannot be made to work. If you don't want want there to be significant change of death in every battle (and most people don't) it means that PCs simply will win every fight and then are exactly at the same condition at the end of it than in the beginning. So why are we rolling dice and wasting time on thing where the conclusion is not in doubt?

At least in attrition model resources are at risk, and you need to consider the things in more strategic scale. And yes, in that case your 'defeat condition' could be that you conclude that you cannot move on have to retreat to rest. And of course that passage of time should have some consequences, otherwise it doesn't matter. The game could offer better advice on how to build such consequences though, it does rather bad job at it.

 

[Baron Opal II]

The problem with the attrition model is if the party blow their resources in one battle, they are left unable to survive the next one.

Attrition never really worked. Even back in 1st edition is was just a case of slogging back to town when you ran out of resources, then slogging back to the dungeon again.

Then don't nova in the first encounter. Problem solved.