Impossible to keep prisoners tied up?

[0-hr]

We had a total party capture last evening and the bad guys (some of whom are reasonably bright) are considering how to secure the incapacitated heros. The obvious choice would be to tie them up and getting an unbeatable Use Rope DC would not be much of a problem for these folks.

But the SRD lists a DC of only 23 for a Strength check to "Burst Rope Bonds". This means that anyone with a 16 strength (or anyone with a 12 strength and a friend) is pretty much immune to being tied up. They can just take 20 and snap the ropes, no matter how well secured.

Even chains can be burst with a 26 check (take 20 + STR 18 + a friend). So in D&D land, what are you supposed to do to keep people bound?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Bind them with more ropes, like in the Road Runner cartoons.

Make each extra binding add +1 to the DC.

Alternatively, have you checked the SRD for Masterwork Manacles?

Manacles and Manacles, Masterwork: These manacles can bind a Medium-size creature. The manacled character can use the Escape Artist skill to slip free (DC 30, or DC 35 for masterwork manacles). To break the manacles requires success at a Strength check (DC 26, or DC 28 for masterwork manacles). Manacles have a hardness of 10 and 10 hit points. Most manacles have locks; add the cost of the lock to the cost of the manacles.

At DC28 I don't think anyone is going to be busting out of those quickly.

Other game solutions:

Poison the captives with a STR-sapping poison so that they will not be able to burst bonds.

Batter them with subdual damage so that they are disabled, and then keep battering them every hour or so to keep them disabled.

etc.

 

[Fenes 2]

I'd just introduce "unusual" rope - higher DC for breaking it. Or manacles.

Or tie them up in a way that struggling will strangle them - Hands tied to the throat should do it. Try to take 20 when you begin to take garrote damage after the first attempt...

A more insiduous way to keep the prisoners - if the PCs are not ready to die - is to fit them with ornate collars with a fake magical aura on them, maybe glowing, and tell them that if they get away too far from "x" it explodes/contracts/saps the very life. Works wonders if one can rig a demonstration with some illusions.

To keep them spellcasters from getting out I have imc "magic-blocking" collars/manacles/bracers, and introduced a "muteness" spell - like blindness/deafness in all aspects, but renders the target mute. A very nasty method was used in the second novel of the "Elvenbane" trilogy: An iron collar that soaked up magic when the wearer tried to cast, converting it into heat...

 

[Drawmack]

Player: I take 20 to break the ropes
DM: The guard notices you struggling and whomps you on the head with a sap.

You can't always take 20. You also might want to look up some torture methods on the net. Here is an oldie but a goodie, works great when you have one free PC trying to get the party out too.

Each person is bound with a single piece of rope wrapped around the feet, then up and around the wrists, then up and around their neck, back to the wrists, then around the waist (holding the wrists to the waist, behind their back), then back and a couple more times around the ankles with about three feet of rope hanging from their feet. The excess rope is then tied into a loop. The loops are used to hang the PCs upside down from the roof.

The PCs cannot break the ropes with a strength check because they cannot get leverage. Escape artists check stands a 35% chance of strangling the PC, if strangled the escape artist check fails. Stick a nasty but intellegent monster on the door so even if they do get loose where are they going to go.

 

[celtonline]

You can't take 20 to break free of ropes IMO. "Taking 20: When the character has plenty of time... and when the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, the character can take 20."

I think being at the mercy of your captors is sufficient penalty for failure to rule against a Take 20 check.

 

[mmu1]

Well, just because it's a HP-based system, doesn't mean the bad guys can't break a few legs - they'll be hard pressed to go anywhere then.

Or, if you don't mind the hassle, have them beaten unconscious at regular intervals, especially if they're worried about spellcasters.

There's always thicker rope, too... And it just needs to be strong enough to resist being broken by the strongest member of the party - no way can you get help in breaking bonds from friends that are also tied up hand and foot. (if they're tied up well)

What's the objective of this exercise, though? Are you actually trying to make sure the PC's don't get away, or that they'll just have a hard time with it?

 

[0-hr]

What's the objective of this exercise, though? Are you actually trying to make sure the PC's don't get away, or that they'll just have a hard time with it?

I'm just trying to picture the situation in real life, and then translate that into the game without some whacky rule making things stupid is all. If I've beaten somone near to death, tied them up really well, and tossed them in the closet; then they should not be able to just snap the ropes on a whim and saunter on out.

I'll just add +2 to the break DC for each extra 10ft of rope used in the restraining. Even Conan should have trouble breaking out of the old "mummy treatment".

 

[Shallown]

Another soultion on the take 20 thing is itis assumed you do this 20 times to break free after that much struggling wouldn't you be tired. say after the tenth or so straining attempt -1 circumstance penalty for the strain or apply the fatigue/exhustion rules (which I don't know off the top my head but does include a str penalty I think)

That may be one idea

 

[Speaks With Stone]

Now try tying up a druid and make that last.

Any thoughts on how to make that work without a magic item?

Cage? Will require a mesh, which could be broken in one form and then he slithers out. Perhaps if you cage him after he's in snake form and the cage is too small to allow a shapechange?

 

[AuraSeer]

Now try tying up a druid and make that last.

Any thoughts on how to make that work without a magic item?

Holding a shapeshifter or spellcaster by nonmagical means is difficult in any situation, and nearly impossible at high levels. A druid could turn into a strong form to damage its enclosure, and then into a small form to slip out. A caster with a Silent Teleport (or Silent Word of Recall) could get out even if he were bound, gagged, blindfolded, tied in a sack, and hung upside down from a tree.

If you really want to make somebody stay put, turn him to stone.