Inserting a bit of wizardry in the sorcerer (and bard).

[Gez]

The idea is to allow the sorcerer to use some, but not all, of his spell slot to prepare spells like a wizard. There is of course a cost, be it in feat slot or in class level; plus the prerequisite having to be met in each case.

How would you prefer it to be done ? Feat or prestige class ?

Here is what I have done so far.

The feat:

Arcane Preparation [General]
You can prepare an arcane spell ahead of time just as a wizard does.
Prerequisite: You must be able to cast arcane spells as a bard or sorcerer before you can select this feat.
Benefit: Each day, you are able to prepare one or more spells as a wizard does. If you are a sorcerer or bard, this means that you can prepare a spell with a metamagic feat ahead of time, instead of casting it as a full-round action.
The prepared spell remains in your mind and occupies one of your spell slots until you cast it or change it. A prepared spell uses a spell slot of the spell's normal level, modified by any other metamagic feat.

This is taken from the FRCS and Tome & Blood. Here comes the new one:

Greater Arcane Preparation [General]
You are learned in the way of wizardry.
Prerequisite: Scribe Scroll, capacity to cast arcane spells spontaneously, capacity to prepare arcane spells (either with a level of wizard or similar class or with the Arcane Preparation feat).
Benefit: Choose a spell slot of a level no higher than your Intelligence bonus. You can now use this spell slot to prepare spells from spellbooks just as a wizard does.
You can now read and write spellbooks just like a wizard. You can also take the Spell Mastery feat just like a wizard.
Spells known (as a sorcerer, bard, or similarly casting class) are considered mastered and can be prepared without spellbook. However, spells mastered with the Spell Mastery feat are not considered known spells for spontaneous casting, although the feats Signature Spell and Extra Spell can allow to increase the number of spell known.
If no spell is prepared on a spell slot affected by this feat, the spell slot can be used to cast spontaneously a known spell.
Only class-granted spell slots, not those gained for high ability scores, can be selected to be affected by this feat.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Its effect does not stack (you can't prepare several spells on the same spell slot). Each time tou take this feat, you must select another spell slot.

Example: A human sorcerer with Cha 17 and Int 14 takes Greater Arcane Preparation at third level (having already taken Scribe Scrolls and Arcane Preparation at first level). The sorcerer can choose spell slot of level 0, 1 or 2 as his preparable spell slot. Being level 3 of sorcerer, he don't have yet spell slot of level 2, so he choose a first level spell slot instead. Now, if he get a spellbook and some 1st-level scrolls, he can write the spells in the spellbook and later on prepare them, one at a time.
At level 4, our sorcerer increase his Charisma to 18.
At level 6, he take Greater Arcane Preparation again. He now has spell slot of level 0, 1, 2, and 3. However, his Int bonus being still only +2, he can't select one of his 3 third-level spell slot for the feat. He can take, however, one of his 6 cantrip slots, one of the 5 remaining 1st level spell slot, or one of his 5 2nd-level spell slot. Guess he will choose the latter option.

In no way does this feat grant the two written spells on the spellbook at each new level a wizard gain. Our example sorcerer will need to copy scrolls or to make researchs if he want to increase the number of spells in his spellbook.

Balance Issue

*Why is the feat a must-have everyone will want:
Sorcerers are powerful as battle-station. If you don't design a sorcerer as a gun turret, swarming magic missiles, fireballs and chain lightning over the enemy, then the sorcerer got the shaft; because he will be too much specialized. At each same level, a wizard can prepare more or as much different spells as a sorcerer knows. Even a specialist wizard is more versatile. This feat allows a sorcerer to have some of the rarely used spells in his spellbook, giving him the versatility he lacks. Bards are similarly always happy to extend their repertoire, be it of music, song, or spells.
*Why noone will want to take this weak feat:
Sorcerers and bards are Cha-dependant, yet this feat relies on Int. This is normal, as the feat allows to use wizardly magic instead of sorcery; yet it hurts sorcerers and bards who will rarely have high scores in both abilities. Even a smart sorcerer will have troubles, or will need to rely on magic items, to prepare high level spells. So, this feat allows only to prepare low-level utility spells. Beside, only one at a time, except if you waste several spell slots on it. Neither sorcerers nor bards have bonus spell slots. Prerequisites are steep, as you need two other feats to take it; or one multiclassed level of wizard (which can mean experience penalty, and always mean more lag in spells compared to a pure wizard). Tome & Blood's Extra Spell is better, and for the rarest spells, just buy a scroll or two.


The Prestige Class:

Full Mage of the United Order (or any other crappy name you want)

Requirements:
Skills: Knowledge (Arcane) 10 ranks, Spellcraft 10 ranks.
Feats: Arcane Preparation, Scribe Scrolls
Spell: Ability to cast 4th level arcane spells spontaneously.
Special: A bard can't progress past level 7 in this class, except if he's also a sorcerer.

Class skills: as sorcerers, plus all Knowledge skills, Decipher Script, and Use Magic Device.

01 / +0 / +0 / +0 / +2 / Preparable Slot 0 / +1 level of existing class
02 / +1 / +0 / +0 / +3 / Preparable Slot 1 / +1 level of existing class
03 / +1 / +1 / +1 / +3 / Preparable Slot 2 / +1 level of existing class
04 / +2 / +1 / +1 / +4 / Preparable Slot 3 / +1 level of existing class
05 / +2 / +1 / +1 / +4 / Preparable Slot 4 / +1 level of existing class
06 / +3 / +2 / +2 / +5 / Preparable Slot 5 / +1 level of existing class
07 / +3 / +2 / +2 / +5 / Preparable Slot 6 / +1 level of existing class
08 / +4 / +2 / +2 / +6 / Preparable Slot 7 / +1 level of existing class
09 / +4 / +3 / +3 / +6 / Preparable Slot 8 / +1 level of existing class
10 / +5 / +3 / +3 / +7 / Preparable Slot 9 / +1 level of existing class

Spellcasting: A full mage continue his studies of sorcerous or bardic (or other similarly casting arcane spellcasting class) magic. At each level, he gain one new level of sorcerer or bard for the purpose of known spells and spell per day.
Preparable Slot: At each level, the full mage gains the capacity to use one spell slot to prepare spells as a wizard does. At first level, he can prepare one cantrip, at second level he can prepare one cantrip and one 1st-level spell, and so on until level 10 where he can prepare one spell of each spell level. If a character is a multiclassed spellcaster (for example, bard/sorcerer) he must choose each time which class will get the preparable slot.

Balance Issue

*Why is the class a must-have everyone will want:
It's better than straight sorcerer, except for the loss of the familiar.
*Why noone will want to take this weak class:
It sucks for the bard, who will lose bardic music uses and most of his skills. Requirements are quite steep, and there are several more interesting prestige classes. Except if you're confident you'll play until level 120, they are plenty more useful prestige classes for the sorcerer and bard. For example, Virtuoso (S&S), Elemental Savant (T&B), Mage-Killer (MaoF), Summoner (R&R)...



So, which way do you prefer ? Myself, I prefer the feat, which is more flexible. However, the class is better for dumb sorcerers. Both have a heavy price in my opinion.

 

[Gez]

So, there are several people who think they have a better idea ? Explain which, please. Or that it is overpowered ? Explain why, please.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I don't see why this is necessary. Perhaps it is a poor wording or personal interpretation of the official feat - I read Arcane Preperation as letting Sorcerers/Bards prepare from a spellbook, just like a Wizard does. The feat doesn't specify only the metamagic advantage of preparing as a Wizard.

 

[AGGEMAM]

IMO, if you want a bit of wizardry in your sorceror class, you have to take a few levels of wizard. It is that simple.

 

[Gez]

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I don't see why this is necessary. Perhaps it is a poor wording or personal interpretation of the official feat - I read Arcane Preperation as letting Sorcerers/Bards prepare from a spellbook, just like a Wizard does. The feat doesn't specify only the metamagic advantage of preparing as a Wizard.

Yeah, that's a case of poor wording. The feat don't allow to prepare from a spellbook, only from the known spells, and is intended only for using metamagiced spells without the full-round delay. That was errated or clarified somewhere.

IMO, if you want a bit of wizardry in your sorceror class, you have to take a few levels of wizard. It is that simple.

The thing is, multiclassing when you're a spellcaster is really harsh. Whereas in 2e it was the road to Glorious Munchkin Power (tm) and the "best" characters were mage/cleric/psi or such; in 3e such a character would be denied high level spells. So, the feat and the prestige class are two attempts at allowing a sorcerer (or bard) a way to have some wizard powers (at a price, of course) without having to sacrifice high level spells.

 

[AGGEMAM]

The thing is, multiclassing when you're a spellcaster is really harsh. Whereas in 2e it was the road to Glorious Munchkin Power (tm) and the "best" characters were mage/cleric/psi or such; in 3e such a character would be denied high level spells. So, the feat and the prestige class are two attempts at allowing a sorcerer (or bard) a way to have some wizard powers (at a price, of course) without having to sacrifice high level spells.

I'm perfectly aware of this and that is exactly what I object to, these sacrifices are nescessary to maintain balance.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Well, if you're going to give this to Sorcerers, is there going to be a feat or two Wizards can take to throw away thier spellbooks, and spontaneously cast more spells per day than they can normally prepare?

I guess what I'm saying is that you should aim for about the level of usefulness and desireability of Spell Mastery, if you want to keep it balanced ...

 

[Nellisir]

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Originally posted by LightPhoenix
Maybe I'm missing the point, but I don't see why this is necessary. Perhaps it is a poor wording or personal interpretation of the official feat - I read Arcane Preperation as letting Sorcerers/Bards prepare from a spellbook, just like a Wizard does. The feat doesn't specify only the metamagic advantage of preparing as a Wizard.
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Yeah, that's a case of poor wording. The feat don't allow to prepare from a spellbook, only from the known spells, and is intended only for using metamagiced spells without the full-round delay. That was errated or clarified somewhere.

I think what you're talking about is how many spells are known. Wizards can only prepare spells they know; they just don't have a limit on how many they can know, thus the spellbook to weigh them down and hamper them. A wizard can't just pick up any spellbook and prepare spells. Your feat allows sorcerers to "know" an unlimited number of spells, but only for the purposes of casting via a single slot.

I'm not a big fan of the idea. Using the feat (or the class), a sorcerer can essentially replace a wizard. Most wizard spell slots end up being used for the same spells as a sorcerer -- big bang damage stuff -- and only one or two slots per spell level end up being devoted to the more esoteric spells (knock, sending, whathaveyou). Given that, and the lack of restriction on spells known, a sorcer using this feat or class would gain something close to the flexibility of a wizard without an appreciable loss of power -- certainly more than warranted by a feat.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Crothian]

Why not just through out the Wizard and the Sorcer and just create a class combing the two. That's what you are doing.

Under the current system this is too powerful. Feats and prestige classes do give some amount of power and versatility, but this is too much.

If you really have to do this, then I'd go with a much toned down version.

 

[Gez]

I'm perfectly aware of this and that is exactly what I object to, these sacrifices are nescessary to maintain balance.

I'm not sure. Take a Fighter 20, a Barbarian 20, and a Fighter 10/Barbarian 10. They are all three quite balanced. No problem. Now, take a Wizard 20, a Sorcerer 20, and a Wizard 10/Sorcerer 10. What do you constate ? The multiclassed character just suck compared to the other. While the single classed can wield 9th-level spells, the dual-classed is limited to 5th-level ones. By this, he lose in both raw power and versatility. I don't think spellcaster multiclassing is balanced. Why ? Because the multiclassing system allow perfect balance for skills and combat where every level stack, but not for magic, where caster level and spellcasting capacity overlaps.

So, my reasonning was that, if multiclassing is too harsh a price for perfect mix of wizard and sorcerer ability mix, a cheaper price could be justified for a lesser deal.

And now, I don't think the greater number of castable low-level spell is balanced with the capacity to cast a nearly -equal number of high level spells.

I think what you're talking about is how many spells are known. Wizards can only prepare spells they know; they just don't have a limit on how many they can know, thus the spellbook to weigh them down and hamper them. A wizard can't just pick up any spellbook and prepare spells. Your feat allows sorcerers to "know" an unlimited number of spells, but only for the purposes of casting via a single slot.

With the spellbook to weigh them down and hamper them, just like a wizard. Except wizards are better at using spellbooks.

I'm not a big fan of the idea. Using the feat (or the class), a sorcerer can essentially replace a wizard. Most wizard spell slots end up being used for the same spells as a sorcerer -- big bang damage stuff -- and only one or two slots per spell level end up being devoted to the more esoteric spells (knock, sending, whathaveyou). Given that, and the lack of restriction on spells known, a sorcer using this feat or class would gain something close to the flexibility of a wizard without an appreciable loss of power -- certainly more than warranted by a feat.

The power loss is in feat slot (remember, neither sorcerer nor bards have bonus feats like the wizard, and you have to take 2 feats before taking either the feat or the class: Arcane Preparation and Scribe Scroll); and for the purpose of the less limiting prestige class, in the familiar ability.

Why not just through out the Wizard and the Sorcer and just create a class combing the two. That's what you are doing.

Under the current system this is too powerful. Feats and prestige classes do give some amount of power and versatility, but this is too much.

If you really have to do this, then I'd go with a much toned down version.

And how to tone it down ? To take the feat, it is already only one slot, of a level no higher than your Int -- not Cha, your spellcasting ability, but Int, another -- and you have the same restrictions as a wizard on how to learn the spells you'll be able to cast once per day.

The thing is, if you use it for utility spells you're not going to use much, it could be cheaper to just buy a scroll, potion, wand, or two.

Frankly, I think the Mage of the Arcane Order, or Guild-Wizard of Waterdeep prestige classes (introduced in Tome & Blood and Magic of Faerûn respectively) are more interesting for the sorcerer or bard wanting to know more spells. Bards and sorcerers can qualify for both. Also, the Extra Spell feat is handier most of times, and don't have the crappy prerequisite of Arcane Preparation, one of the least useful spell out there, whose only interest reside in the capacity to cast quickened spells without having the full-round action penalty to defeat it.