Invisible

[Fanaelialae]

Here's the problem, its not fluff, its the FREAKING WORD THEY USE TO DEFINE IT. Nobody reasonable can look at the predator while hes in stealth mode and go "ZOMG ITS INVISIBLE"

I feel Invisible is not what it should be in this edition. Invisibility should be a much higher level spell/ability, and should automatically grant everything "hidden" does.

In 4e, you can knock an ooze prone. You can bleed a skeleton (cause it untyped ongoing damage). You can blind an elemental.

In case it wasn't obvious, not everything in this edition is meant to be taken literally. Sometimes you have to engage your imagination to sensibly rationalize odd mechanics.

If the best invisibility spell in the world leaves behind a "shimmer", then that is the definition of invisibility in 4e.

 

[Flipguarder]

then thats not invisibility.

If their definition of an axe was a vaguely sharpened Metal Boat Oar, I would have the same problem.

 

[Fanaelialae]

then thats not invisibility.

If their definition of an axe was a vaguely sharpened Metal Boat Oar, I would have the same problem.

I guess it's a difference of styles then.

If one of my players wanted to use a "vaguely sharpened Metal Boat Oar" and use it as an axe, then I'd let him. Why not, if he thinks it's cool?

If I might ask, how would you term "Predator invisibility"?

 

[Flipguarder]

If one of my players wanted to use a "vaguely sharpened Metal Boat Oar" and use it as an axe, then I'd let him. Why not, if he thinks it's cool?


If I might ask, how would you term "Predator invisibility"?

1. I would to. But if WOTC's only definition of an axe was that, I would have a problem with that. Two completely different things.

2. Predator does not have invisibility. Predator has "stealth mode"

 

[Fanaelialae]

1. I would to. But if WOTC's only definition of an axe was that, I would have a problem with that. Two completely different things.

2. Predator does not have invisibility. Predator has "stealth mode"

I don't really think the term stealth mode would have worked too well in the PHB, in lieu of the word invisibility. IMO, of course.

 

[Flipguarder]

How about minor invisibility, invisibility and major invisibility.

 

[Fanaelialae]

How about minor invisibility, invisibility and major invisibility.

If even epic level invisibility functions as "minor/Predator invisibility" (which is the case in 4e AFAIK) why would you define two other varieties of invisibility that you never (as a designer) intend to use in the game?

 

[Flipguarder]

Heroic invisibility: predator style
Paragon invisibility: normal invisibility (by my definition)
Epic invisibility: Something better that I haven't come up with yet but its irrelevant to the discussion.

It really isn't that complicated. Why call something invisibility when it isn't?

 

[Nytmare]

Blinded is unfortunate, but I don't think that there's a better word for it. Invisibility doesn't bother me at all though.

Shimmery is one way of explaining it, but it's not one I think I'd ever use.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Heroic invisibility: predator style
Paragon invisibility: normal invisibility (by my definition)
Epic invisibility: Something better that I haven't come up with yet but its irrelevant to the discussion.

It really isn't that complicated. Why call something invisibility when it isn't?

4e doesn't have an equivalent to what you call "normal" (3e) invisibility. It's all effectively "minor" invisibility.

Taking the game as is, why would you term invisibility as "minor invisibility" if it's the only form of invisibility the game is ever likely to see?

You're free to think of it however you like, of course. You can imagine all invisibility as perfect invisibility if you prefer. I just think that viewing it as "stealth mode" allows the fluff to best match the mechanics. It isn't as though that's "canon" though. Just my opinion about a useful way to consider it.

It seems to me that what you're getting at is that you'd have preferred that the designers include 3e style invisibility. Personally, I'm glad they got rid of it. Oftentimes it was equivalent to invulnerability, while other times it was effectively useless. The defensive equivalent of save-or-die. YMMV.

I agree with the designers' choice to call it invisibility, despite that it is mechanically nerfed when compared to prior versions of invisibility. Any other term (that I can think of) would have been confusing and unevocative.