Now, I've got to go back and read the rules on page 13 again. (and again, and again, until I understand them. I won't totally understand them, and I will learn my mistakes soon enough, in the actual game! And that's ok, and how it should be. Or, at least, how it always is, with a new game! (sheepish look))
Now, I've got to reread the rules too. Because it's all Greek to me, and I barely speak Frat.
I think I've got a pretty good handle on the rules, for the most part (this is not surprising, as I seem to have a strange ability to learn game systems really quickly. Which is why I gotta ask: How come I'm no good at math, memorizing dates, or languages?
). If it's OK with serpenteye, I (or anyone else who thinks they understand) could field questions; the worst that happens is that we get it wrong and Serpenteye has to answer anyway, and if we're right or even mostly right it'll save him some work.
In that spirit, Creamsteak, I'll answer your question:
Second, would there be any benefits to attaining both 10th level magic AND psionics?
Serpenteye said:
Psionics have a similar role as arcane magics and the two are therefore technically interchangable with each other, a matter or role-playing of no concern to the rules.
by saying that since, in all other aspects, Psionics and Magic are different only in flavor, I'd assume this extends to high level magics of either kind. Spending PL to research "Magic" is the same as doing so for Psionics.
*takes off All Knowing Hat, which is oddly conical...*
I do have a question/suggestion of my own, though:
(I put the below in sblock so people won't have to scroll through it unless they want rules wonk discussion.
)
[sblock]
The one thing I'm a little fuzzy on is nature of PL's. I think there are some slight gaps in the rules that need to be filled in, but it's easily enough done.
If I've got it right:
At the beginning of a turn, we get a certain number of PP's, as determined by how developed our territories are and how much control we have over them, as capped by our tech level and the population. Also at the beginning of the turn, we earmark things for certain uses, those being:
Military: You can use PPs to convert your population into Regular units.
Industrialization: You can use PPs to increase production in your territories.
Tech: You can use PPs to increase your tech level.
Once this is done, the turn proper commences. This is where things start to get fuzzy. You talk about "spending" PL's of various levels (you spend PL's to infiltrate a faction, Regular PLs to create Elite PLs, Elite PLs to create Epic PLs, and epic PLs to research magic). But these PL's refer to people. In terms of magic, as you've explained, this makes sense: the people in question are killed or seriously injured in the researching. But what about when upgrading military units? Does it really kill off, or cause the disbandment of, the other 9 units of 2-6 level people to get the one unit of 7-16 level people? That's one hell of a training regimen
. What about infiltration? Do you sacrifice regular military units in order to send spies in?
PLs make sense when they mean something other than military units, but the only point in the process that you've listed to turn PPs into PLs is when you recruit some of your populace to become professional soldiers. Really, it seems to me not so much a point of confusion about how the rules work as noticing that you seem to have forgotten a passage.
You even wrote later:
This time around PLs is a measure of disposable power that can be used at an immediate notice during the Turn. It represents your armies, magical items and cold hard cash. It's not tied to the territories, but to your faction as a whole.
...
(That's a new thought for me. Using regular PLs for Infiltration would simplify the system considerably. No longer need you put specific PPts in reserve for Infiltration... Regular PLs, as the two other kinds of PL, can represent various kinds of currency (magical and otherwise), that in turn can be used to bribe and manipulate. In essence you spend "money" to infiltrate.)
I wrote the first part of this post before I went back and read this one of yours.
So the wording above may be a little off, but I think the idea it may bear returning to. As is, PLs represent People as well as Resources, which means it's a little wonky to "spend" them at a rate of 10-to-1 in order to get better people or spies.
I'm trying to think of a way to tweak this (although you may disagree about the need to tweak it) that's elegant. Would it be too complex to be able to "stockpile," converting PP into the "magic items and hard cash" form of PL without throwing population into the mix?
Or perhaps that's what you do every time you create a PL (which is to say, you create some form of useful material wealth) and making regular armies is in fact the process of
combining a PL and some population (whatever it is, magic item or gold, it's sold and the money used to make weapons). Of course, when the population is destroyed (i.e, killed in battle) the PL is lost because the equipment is destroyed too. I think I like this best.
The way things would work under this system:
Replace the "military" step of the before-the-turn actions with the "stockpile" step. PPs are converted into PLs as usual. People have a certain amount of PL hanging around as a matter of course. Still at the beginning of the turn, you earmark some of your PL to be wed to some of your population to create military units. Like before when you could spend PP to get regular PLs, you can only do this at the beginning of your turn. Any other PLs you keep.
If you disband a military unit, the PL remains. To convert a low-level military unit to a higher-level military unit, you spend unwed PL's. You would spend 9 PLs to turn a Regular "unit" (which replaces PL when referring to armies) into an Elite unit (for a total cost of 10) and you would spend 90 PLs to turn an elite unit into an Epic unit (totalling 100 PL). This represents spending money on training as much as anything else, which is why you can't just disband an epic unit and get the PLs back (at least until you research a spell to turn their XP into GP
). Infiltration requires a similar expenditure of loose PLs.
Magic costs loose PLs for research costs, and should require the
presence of Epic units (you need to have 1 epic unit for each 100 PL you want to spend in a turn), and maybe a lesser expenditure thereof. For example, say expenditure is 90% PL, 10% Epic unit. Reaching the 10th level mark still costs 5000 PLs worth of effort, but that's 4,000 PL spent and 10 Epic units sacrificed to accidents.[/sblock]
On another note:
Researcher trait: I think that might be a bit too scary, seeing how (as I understand it) certain nations will already be getting bonuses to their magic of various flavors thanks to the Arcane or Clerical (or did I misread/misremember?) traits. Stacking something like that would be obscene, though I think that there should be corresponding (but rare, who on Oerth has it besides Murlynd?) trait for technology.
You misread, a little. There are no Arcane or Clerical traits. Everyone has arcane magic (0-9th), but/so it doesn't give any bonuses. Not everyone has divine magic, so it gives a +1 bonus to Militia, Regular, and Elite PLs and a +2 bonus to epic PLs. And possesing epic spells, or having a Diety on your side, gives combat bonuses.
What I was preposing (or reminding the DM about his own proposal for) was making it slightly easier for some factions to research Magic. Perhaps they get a 10% discount on research (requiring only 4,500 PLs to get 10th level spells) or perhaps there could be another trait called
Arcane Might which means you count as having more Epic units then you do when casting 10th+ level spells (although since this wouldn't become relevant until you can actually
cast them, it'd be useless for a loong time and best combined with the research trait)
Just tossing out ideas to make small mage-based factions viable in the same way
Infiltrator makes other smaller factions viable. None of these may be needed, depending on how Serpenteye "stats them out".
I just decided safe was better than sorry. I didn't want to offend anyone, so I totally deleted the e-mails. I will put them back on a permission basis, case by case.
Edena, all the e-mails on my list (which is, I assume, where you got yours) were posted on this thread when asked for contact. I assume you've got permission to
repost them on the
same thread- or at least, I hope so, 'cause I sure did.
