D&D 5E Is 5E Special

[Parmandur]

I think a book with a Summoner class, A Beastmster class, an artificer reprint, a new caster, and a new martial would sell better than most setting books.

Not releasing new classes was a choice to not be beholden to a rapid schedule of the past. But in that choice, they have crawled into getting to many traditional and nontraditional classes, subclasses, monsters, and options.

The "Well the only things worth it for WOTC to publish were published" is a sill argument. By that logic WOTC shouldn't have made TCOE because I designed a horizon walker class on my own. I'm sure many of the official mechanics and products were made by 3PPs before WOTC got to them .

On what grounds do you believe that? The people with sales data appear not to believe that, and I see no reason they have to act against their interests.

 

[pumasleeve]

I think the actual rules of 5E are a small factor. According to wotc data the average campaign lasts 6 sessions. Call me crazy but I think that most of the folks into dnd now may like playing the game, but what they really like is to talk dnd, watch dnd, and basically feel like they are part of something larger than themselves. Many people I know devote much more time to watching podcasts than actually playing the game themselves. Books are selling like never before but that doesnt necessarily translate into butts in seats at a gaming table on an ongoing basis. So while agree that the rules are more accessable and therefor easier to get into, i dont think that is a large part responsible for the games popularity

 

[Imaro]

Yes. That WotC wouldn't feel that it's worth the investment based on how well a 3rd party product is doing. WotC may very well feel that it's worth the investment, but they have it planned to be announced 18 months from now. The 3rd party guy just got there first. Maybe they didn't even consider the idea until they saw the 3rd party person do it.

All I can say to this is that it may not be the ONLY deciding factor but I'm sure if a 3PP product they planned for 18 months out was doing horribly it would be noticed and could affect their decisions. I find it hard to believe they aren't aware at least at a high level of complementary products to 5e from other publishers and which categories seem to sell the best.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Why? Why do you have no doubt? Is there some kind of market research to suggest this? Will it sell more than something they could divert those resources to?

EDIT: Just trying to understand the mentality of second guessing (with such confidence) a company that has, for all intents and purposes, struck gold with its product when it comes to sales.

Next up Levi’s—-the century old accident.

In seriousness though people are right to point out multiple variables as they relate to sales. But at a certain point…

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I think the actual rules of 5E are a small factor. According to wotc data the average campaign lasts 6 sessions. Call me crazy but I think that most of the folks into dnd now may like playing the game, but what they really like is to talk dnd, watch dnd, and basically feel like they are part of something larger than themselves. Many people I know devote much more time to watching podcasts than actually playing the game themselves. Books are selling like never before but that doesnt necessarily translate into butts in seats at a gaming table on an ongoing basis. So while agree that the rules are more accessable and therefor easier to get into, i dont think that is a large part responsible for the games popularity

That is interesting. Here I am on break posting about and not playing D&D!

I spend more time thinking about and pouring over books that I do playing, it’s true—but not by choice.

I think what you said otherwise maybe has some significance. Most people don’t play to high level. Maybe there would be some shift if they did.

But if they were hooked long enough to do so, assuming something there they connect with.

 

[Parmandur]

Good thing letting third parties do better design than the core they're building off of has never come back to bite WotC in particular before.

Only when WotC changed the core and cut off the OGL. Notice how important the OGL and DMsGuild are to WotC now and how emphatic they are about backwards compatibility. That's what bit them in the ass before.

 

[Maxperson]

All I can say to this is that it may not be the ONLY deciding factor but I'm sure if a 3PP product they planned for 18 months out was doing horribly it would be noticed and could affect their decisions. I find it hard to believe they aren't aware at least at a high level of complementary products to 5e from other publishers and which categories seem to sell the best.

Why would a 3rd party product doing horribly have any impact at all on WotC? Putting out a platinum work on DMsGuild is just 1000 copies sold. Everything 3rd party does horribly compared to WotC.

 

[Imaro]

Why would a 3rd party product doing horribly have any impact at all on WotC? Putting out a platinum work on DMsGuild is just 1000 copies sold. Everything 3rd party does horribly compared to WotC.

And I'm sure WotC can account for scale. Do you really believe they aren't aware or purposefully ignore the more popular products made by other companies for 5e? There have been multi-million dollar kickstarters for 5e, and you're telling me no one at WotC paid them any mind. I find that logic hard to follow.

 

[Minigiant]

And I'm sure WotC can account for scale. Do you really believe they aren't aware or purposefully ignore the more popular products made by other companies for 5e? There have been multi-million dollar kickstarters for 5e, and you're telling me no one at WotC paid them any mind. I find that logic hard to follow.

The issue isn't that WOTC doesn't see it.

The issue is that WOTC decided in 2014 to do a very slow release schedule with alot of ideas crossed off the list of possibilities and stuck to it. The way 5e is released, they has to be big ideas they're missing out on making oodles of cash on.

However they have decided to stick with the plan. I mean it took them 6 years to "fix" the ranger because they had a policy that they wouldn't edit the PHB or DMG except to clarify completely broken or confusing rules.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Exactly. It's the presence of 3pp that's keeping me within the 5e ecosystem. Since I'm still in the 5e ecosystem, I'm playing with plenty of newer players who also then buy PHBs.

I know of 5 PHBs, and a few other WotC releases, that have sold in the past 3 years that were sold because I'm playing and running 5e. And without 3pp, I wouldn't be.

Hell yeah.

Artificer+ Summoner+Headmaster+Warlord would sell more than Strixhaven

You don’t know that, nor do you know how that, along with 5 extra books a year in general, would impact core book sales and the health of the community around the game overall.

Oh, absolutely. My only point is that WotC books sell because they're part of a broader ecosystem built around official material, their sales numbers do not indicate a referendum that WotC books are obviously higher quality than comparable 3pp material, as some previous posts seemed to allude to.

Sure. We are on two separate discussion tracks, I think, but mostly in agreement.

So while agree that the rules are more accessable and therefor easier to get into, i dont think that is a large part responsible for the games popularity

I think it’s be wild to suggest that the rules aren’t part of why 5e is being treated that way, socially.

I also disagree that most consumers of D&D products aren’t playing much.