Is D&D a heroic game?
- Thread starter Crothian
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shilsen
Adventurer
Bah! They were all munchkins in The Iliad!MerricB said:However, take a good look at the Iliad.
Cheers!
Look at that guy Diomedes. Bad enough he actually liked having that DMPC Athena do the fighting for him just because Ares was higher than his CR. Wuss!
And then he maxes out Diplomacy and gets the DM to let him talk Glaucus from fighting him to giving him gold armor in exchange for bronze and leaving. He didn't even talk. He just rolled some dice and got the DM to explain it. What happened to roleplaying there?
And don't even bring up Achilles. You know he played out that whole "anger of Achilles" bull just so he could get Patroclus's PC killed and get that epic level armor.
Heroes?
Bah!
Ranger REG said:
AFAIK most people use the tools to sit around and eat pizza and entertain themselves, which is not heroic by most people's definition. I don't consider my dice heroic, and so my answer to the question in the OP was intended to follow logically from that. In hindsight I realize that my "sound of one hand clapping" statement was confusing and would have been redundant anyway.
Crothian said:Simple question: Is D&D a heroic game? If you are not sure what heroic means then start here
Oh, and with regards to the OP. I find the "if you're not sure what heroic means..." part of this to be a little snippy. Defining culturally relative words like "heroic" would be an aspect of discussing the answer to the problem (see "Iliad" discussion above). Prefixing any given question with "Simple Question:" doesn't actually make it a simple question (well, maybe it's the answer that's supposed to be simple). For example:
Simple Question: What is the right answer then? Did anyone get it?
Crothian
First Post
gizmo33 said:
Wasn't snippy. The last few polls I posted people argued about certain word meanings. So, to make sure that doesn't happen I provided a definition. And like I said in one of those previous polls I knew someone would come along and have a problem with me doing that.
I find a five or so word question very simple. The answer on the other hand is not so simple.
D&D is heroic in all its forms as the PCs go and do things that normal men only tremble to think about. (e.g. slay monsters). Their motivations for doing so may be suspect, but that's not the point of this definition.
D&D is not inherently moral or ethical, however.
Cheers!
D&D is not inherently moral or ethical, however.
Cheers!
jdrakeh
Front Range Warlock
MerricB said:
That's a good distinction. Many people (incorrectly) think of literary heroism as being defined by contemporary moral and ethical standards of "good" -- and this simply isn't the case. If it were, the Volsungs, Jason, Lancelot, etc would all be questionable heroes at best (all of them and more did some decidely immoral things).
Inconsequenti-AL
Breaks Games
MerricB said:
I know a paladin who would beg to disagree, just as soon as he finishes eating that spit roasted orc baby.
I think the Master said it best:
As a point of order, who says that PCs need be of heroic stamp? That's a matter for the players to determine, they and none other, most assuredly.
-Gary Gygax
My favorite games have been when the PCs are cowardly, greedy, treacherous, cruel and stupid -and all of the above! They tend to be more fun (and funnier, too) and have more surprises that way.
As a point of order, who says that PCs need be of heroic stamp? That's a matter for the players to determine, they and none other, most assuredly.
-Gary Gygax
My favorite games have been when the PCs are cowardly, greedy, treacherous, cruel and stupid -and all of the above! They tend to be more fun (and funnier, too) and have more surprises that way.
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