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D&D 5E Is it right for WoTC to moralize us in an adventure module?


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Reynard

Legend
Supporter
Which circles back to my previous point: Neither of which the author presented in the conclusion, and a DM who is young, inexperienced, busy, and/or not on Enworld might not occur to them (as per here upthread)
Adventures do not need to be written for inexperienced GMs. That is what Starter sets are for. By the time you run through Phandelver or Icespire Peak, you can figure out that sometimes PCs do stuff that isn't written in the adventure. Writing every adventure like it is for newcomers makes for boring, rote adventures.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
What do you mean? It says "She allows the characters to study it so they can replicate its image using magic such as disguise self or minor illusion, or even copy it with pen and ink."

Why would she allow them to copy it if she didn't get what she wanted (them aiding and abetting her)?

Where does it suggest here that the PCs have a photographic memory and can take a mental snapshot of the tattoo against her will?


I don't know what you mean? "Broadly appealing" means that a variety of DMs who are not on Enworld can read the adventure on their own and clearly understand some of the different options that the author had intended for a variety of gaming preferences.
10 minutes of drawing indicates the players don't have a photographic memory but remember it well enough to spend some time and ink to try and get it right.

Also they can fail the check and try again.

Studying it OR drawing it. The operative "Or" implies you don't have to study it or cooperate.
 

Emoshin

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
You can’t expect the author to think of everything. “No plot survives contact with the players” and all that.
If I understand correctly, some of you agree that:
  • as written, the Golden Vault "rights moral wrongs" and "always support a just, moral cause" (from here )
  • as written, it takes a high DC 19 just to notice the tattoo, and failing that [insert probability here], the adventure as written suggests no other solution to discovering the tattoo unless the PCs aid and abet her with a ledger that she can use to further her criminal activities
  • as written, the alternative options explicitly called out in the adventure as written are jailbreak, maiming or killing her
  • to repeat again for emphasis, the PCs are working for an organization that "rights moral wrongs" and "always support a just, moral cause" and the above are the only solutions that are examined and explored in the adventure as written
  • arguably the most morally correct solutions are actually ones provided here on Enworld and not in the adventure itself at all
And so I consider that, and I submit to you that:
  • when evaluating this situation, we should not just be thinking of ourselves and our gaming tables; we should also consider other DMs ( young, inexperienced, busy, and/or not on Enworld)
  • there is room for improvement in the adventure as written; for PCs working for a morally just organization, it would have been optimal to have at least one morally correct solution explored and presented in the adventure plot as written
And so, if I understand correctly, based on the words that some of you have chosen to express to me, some of you are saying:
  • my position above is not correct
  • it is not optimal for a well-written adventure to present as written at least one morally correct solution for PCs working for a morally just organization?
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
How else are you going to get the info. The staff at the Panopticon is not going to just let you walk in and interrogate the inmate
Actually having read it now (thanks for the link) Im still wondering why the need for a heist - unless it is a black ops site.
It seems that Prisoner 13 is a prisoner of the Axebreaker clan for crimes against the Axebreakers, so why doesnt Varrin Axebreaker (or his agents) just go in and interrogate her officially (with authority of Mithral Hall)?
The subtefuge just seems a bit silly.

especially when Varrin provides the a map, entry and passes to the doors- lots of gimmicks that just seem to make everything a bit too convenient to get through
 

Actually having read it now (thanks for the link) Im still wondering why the need for a heist - unless it is a black ops site.
It seems that Prisoner 13 is a prisoner of the Axebreaker clan for crimes against the Axebreakers, so why doesnt Varrin Axebreaker (or his agents) just go in and interrogate her officially (with authority of Mithral Hall)?
They asked and were refused her release to them. And if they get an actual audience with her the Warden will be listening.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
I think it's perfectly fine for adventures to consider certain ends more moral than others. Whether a given DM/group agrees is up to them.

However, at least based on the description you gave, this sounds like pretty tortured logic to call it a "good" ending.
 

pukunui

Legend
They asked and were refused her release to them. And if they get an actual audience with her the Warden will be listening.
It also states that they tried all sorts of things, including magical compulsion, to get her to cooperate before she was sent to Azkaban Revel’s End, so clearly they’re a bit desperate and are looking to try a different tack.
 



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