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Is the Paladin class poorly designed?
- Thread starter Nail
- Start date
Jack99
Adventurer
Charisma Paladins don't need high Strength, but they do benefit from decent Con. My favorite paladin at the moment is half-elf with a stat distribution of 10/14/12/8/16/18. Their basic attacks suck, but who cares, Divine Challenge is plenty effective if the mark doesn't attack the paladin. They qualify for plate specialization at level 11, as well as Astral Fire for those radiant attacks. Their defenses aren't half bad, with the class bonuses, a heavy shield, and their access to human perseverance for the help with saves. And they get racial skill bonus to two class skills.
They also get interesting dilettante options between Sacred Flame, Eyebite, Burning Spray, Avenging Light, Grasping Shards, etc.
For a more selfish paladin, you could switch the Con and Wis around, and bump dex up to 13. This would yield fewer lay on hands, but better fortitude defense, and more healing surges. Other than lay on hands, wisdom is not that crucial for a paladin, so a 14 wisdom should be perfectly acceptible.
They also get interesting dilettante options between Sacred Flame, Eyebite, Burning Spray, Avenging Light, Grasping Shards, etc.
For a more selfish paladin, you could switch the Con and Wis around, and bump dex up to 13. This would yield fewer lay on hands, but better fortitude defense, and more healing surges. Other than lay on hands, wisdom is not that crucial for a paladin, so a 14 wisdom should be perfectly acceptible.
Storminator
First Post
Is it just me, or do paladins have some really nice powers? I keep looking at level after level and thinking, "that's really good... ooh, so is that... "
PS
PS
They have a few of those indeed. The third level encounter power that gives everyone temp HP's makes my warlord rather jealous (Righteous Smite).
Mal Malenkirk
First Post
I like STR paladin.
There is of course that incomprehensible level 9 where all three dailies are CHA based but you can find ways around that if your DM isn't unreasonable (or if you don't expect to be level 9 before July!)
Otherwise, it is pretty good. As a defender, what you lose in damage from the divine challenge you balance out by having far better attacks of opportunity.
The two STR at-will are pretty good too. Did you notice that Holy strike is a Radiant attack? Man, you just rip undead apart with that! 1[W] + STR + WIS + 5 (usually)... Sweet.
And valiant strike is also pretty darn good. +2 to hit because I am in contact with 2 enemies? Yes please.
Also, a STR paladin is much better than a CHA one if you are collaborating with a Warlord (especially tactical).
I especially like dwarf and minotaur for STR paladin.
There is of course that incomprehensible level 9 where all three dailies are CHA based but you can find ways around that if your DM isn't unreasonable (or if you don't expect to be level 9 before July!)
Otherwise, it is pretty good. As a defender, what you lose in damage from the divine challenge you balance out by having far better attacks of opportunity.
The two STR at-will are pretty good too. Did you notice that Holy strike is a Radiant attack? Man, you just rip undead apart with that! 1[W] + STR + WIS + 5 (usually)... Sweet.
And valiant strike is also pretty darn good. +2 to hit because I am in contact with 2 enemies? Yes please.
Also, a STR paladin is much better than a CHA one if you are collaborating with a Warlord (especially tactical).
I especially like dwarf and minotaur for STR paladin.
Ther's nothing wrong with the paladin. Well not much anyway. You only need 1 very high ability score (your attack stat). As long as you start with your other two abilities above 14, you'll be fine. The difference with paladins is your chosen starts determine how you play than the other classes.
Str/Wis paladins fight like fighters. They beat down with their oppy attacks but have weaker Challenge. They also have more feat options and can put the hurt on standard enemies.
Cha/Wis paladin are more duelist types. Whoever they mark is pretty much at 50% effectiveness. Their oppy attack miss but so what. The challenge foe will take some damage if they attack thier allies. And if they even somehow managed to hit an ally(after missing once or twice and taking radiant damage), you'll just heal it.
Str/Cha users would have fewer heals and weaker encounter powers, but be mean in a fight. An accurate opportunty attack and strong Challenge would make their target very hurt in many situations.
Str/Wis paladins fight like fighters. They beat down with their oppy attacks but have weaker Challenge. They also have more feat options and can put the hurt on standard enemies.
Cha/Wis paladin are more duelist types. Whoever they mark is pretty much at 50% effectiveness. Their oppy attack miss but so what. The challenge foe will take some damage if they attack thier allies. And if they even somehow managed to hit an ally(after missing once or twice and taking radiant damage), you'll just heal it.
Str/Cha users would have fewer heals and weaker encounter powers, but be mean in a fight. An accurate opportunty attack and strong Challenge would make their target very hurt in many situations.
The thing is currently, we mainly have martial feats available, and getting to the feat requirements means spreading your points even more. A paladin, especially one with no shield, will end up with a rather poor reflex save. And a lot of monsters hit on your reflex. A defender's job is not just to keep monsters focused on him and take damage in place of the rest of the party. He needs to be able to soak and/or avoid the damage better as well. Good reflex defense counts.
keterys
First Post
I'd think that Charisma would be pretty important if it's the attack stat for all implement powers, number of lay on hands, effectiveness of divine challenge, and all secondary effects. Course, it'd help if there were more Implement attacks at certain bands (like at-wills) but that's not so hard.
Mostly, though, the change I suggested is because you can make it now and it works. There's no other silver bullet to fix the class without rewriting it to a very large extent.
Which is one of the reasons I just don't play paladins.
Anyhow, make all the attacks Charisma based and you're hard pressed to have Str matter and, so, what, Wis is your secondary? That's... not so great.
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