If iterative attcks are really gone from the new edition does this make TWF a more meaningful and popular choice in your opinion? I have noticed a trend within the current edition that (generally speaking) two handed weapons were almost a default choice for melee damage output. Can 4e put one handed or smaller weapons back on the map in the new edition as a meaningful choice for non-ranger/rogue melee characters? Would this be a welcome change?
iterative attacks and TWF
- Thread starter Shadeydm
- Start date
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Saga has a couple of ways of doing it (TWF and multiple strikes), both of which make interesting options.
Shadeydm said:
Yes, in Saga characters get half their CL as a bonus to damage; and the only way to get more than 1 attack is to take feats such as Double Attack, Triple Attack, Dual Weapon Mastery or Whirlwind Attack etc.
vongarr
First Post
I don't know the Saga model, so I cannot comment on that.
If you take out multiple attacks, what fundamental change happens in the system? I can see thing's not changing all that much (in the sense of a standard attack) from what we know if attacks are fully replaced by something like the Book of Nine Swords. Which I guess we know is happening.
If they completely remove any chance of rolling a second attack die even if you have two weapons, then it all depends on how they mechanically show that second attack. Do you increase damage? Perhaps you automatically double your damage die result. Or maybe you hit once, and roll both die for each weapon? Or will things be harder to hit in general, and that second weapon will only increase your hit chance?
A whole lot of choices here. Personally, I like the idea of you losing chance to hit and rolling both damage die if you do hit.
Too many possibilites to really know if it would be effective. It seems like they're going to make each weapon special, so I don't see why a single weapon style, two hander, sword and board, or two weapon would be any different.
If you take out multiple attacks, what fundamental change happens in the system? I can see thing's not changing all that much (in the sense of a standard attack) from what we know if attacks are fully replaced by something like the Book of Nine Swords. Which I guess we know is happening.
If they completely remove any chance of rolling a second attack die even if you have two weapons, then it all depends on how they mechanically show that second attack. Do you increase damage? Perhaps you automatically double your damage die result. Or maybe you hit once, and roll both die for each weapon? Or will things be harder to hit in general, and that second weapon will only increase your hit chance?
A whole lot of choices here. Personally, I like the idea of you losing chance to hit and rolling both damage die if you do hit.
Too many possibilites to really know if it would be effective. It seems like they're going to make each weapon special, so I don't see why a single weapon style, two hander, sword and board, or two weapon would be any different.
vongarr said:
Saga also has a feat called Rapid Strike, which lets you deal an extra die of weapon damage (2d8 for a longsword etc), but you take a -2 penalty to hit.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
It's a tough line to walk ... if single attack is the standard but by going TWF you get two attacks, unless there is a significant balancing factor everyone will migrate to TWF (as happended after 1E UA was released).
Lots of potential ways to balance but we won't know until we learn more.
Lots of potential ways to balance but we won't know until we learn more.
jasin
Explorer
If maneuvers (in th Bo9S sense) feature prominently, that might be the balancing factor.
In fact, maneuvers might be the way TWF is modelled in 4E, rather than always on abilities such as feats. Instead of either having TWF or not having it, you could have a TWF maneuver (like wolf fang strike from Bo9S), but also others. So a rapier-and-dagger duelist might use a maneuver to attack with both weapons one round, but use a disarm maneuver the next and attack just like if he was wielding just the rapier.
It might be an interesting way to go, since it would let you dabble in TWF without requiring the single-minded specialization 3E does, or making it a free ride like 2E did.
In fact, maneuvers might be the way TWF is modelled in 4E, rather than always on abilities such as feats. Instead of either having TWF or not having it, you could have a TWF maneuver (like wolf fang strike from Bo9S), but also others. So a rapier-and-dagger duelist might use a maneuver to attack with both weapons one round, but use a disarm maneuver the next and attack just like if he was wielding just the rapier.
It might be an interesting way to go, since it would let you dabble in TWF without requiring the single-minded specialization 3E does, or making it a free ride like 2E did.
Shadeydm said:
Well, when you attack with two weapons in Saga you take a -10 penalty to all attacks until the beginning of your next turn, but the feats Dual Weapon Mastery I, II, and III reduce the penalty to -5, -2, -0 respectively.
And you still need to take a full round action (no movement whatsoever) in order to attack more than once a round, be it Dual Weapon fighting, Double Attack etc.
