Paizo Jessica Price (ex Paizo employee) spills the beans

[teitan]

Without specifics, I have no clue what to even say about this. If you are going to say that something isn't true, you have to say what, otherwise it comes off as trying to cast doubt on it all. If there is something wrong, then say what you know is wrong. At this point, there's no reason to be vague about it.



You know, I subscribed to TB for a long time, but his help in giving GG credibility was unconscionable and always poorly-considered. To me, it always came off as being out of ego, and him tossing his credibility to a nascent hate movement honestly should not be forgotten. I never wanted the man to die nor would I celebrate his death, but I suppose if I were a women in gaming on the internet, I might not be so inclined to be so kind.

Oh no, I get it, but she celebrated his death and you just basically... excused it. It's not a relative thing, it's a very black & white issue. Is he Hitler or Mussolini?

 

[Justice and Rule]

Oh no, I get it, but she celebrated his death and you just basically... excused it. It's not a relative thing, it's a very black & white issue. Is he Hitler or Mussolini?

TB didn't make my life unbearable like he did for a lot of women on the internet. He legitimized a hate movement and never once apologized for it. He got hundreds if not thousands of women harassed. You don't need to be Hitler or Mussolini to be s****y and hurt people, and those people shouldn't be expected to be nice upon your death.

I didn't hate TB, at least not enough to feel like I needed to do what she did. But I understand why some people felt that way, and it'd be pretty low of me to tell them how to feel after the guy made their lives miserable.

 

[teitan]

TB didn't make my life unbearable like he did for a lot of women on the internet. He legitimized a hate movement and never once apologized for it. He got hundreds if not thousands of women harassed. You don't need to be Hitler or Mussolini to be s****y and hurt people, and those people shouldn't be expected to be nice upon your death.

I didn't hate TB, at least not enough to feel like I needed to do what she did. But I understand why some people felt that way, and it'd be pretty low of me to tell them how to feel after the guy made their lives miserable.

Yeah but we aren't discussing him, we are discussing her celebrating his death, which undermines her credibility. He's not the one making claims, he's dead. SHe's the one who previously accused an employer of terminating her based on sexism etc that proved to not be the case and now she's making accusations that, well, some are debunked, some are meh and some are meh but concerning when you take something like asthma into account. So yeah, it's not about him, it's about her so stay on topic. She comes across as someone who likes to sling guns before she sees the innocent people in the room and then tries to escape the fall out of her actions.

 

[Parmandur]

This is far from the first time I've heard this. I'm honestly surprised this is the first time it's been mentioned publicly.

I'm certain thst it isn't.

 

[teitan]

And please note, I am not into Gamegate, I thought it was a pile of hot garbage. Attacking women and threatening them, harassing them, is never, ever excusable. EVER.

 

[darjr]

Yeah but we aren't discussing him, we are discussing her celebrating his death, which undermines her credibility. He's not the one making claims, he's dead. SHe's the one who previously accused an employer of terminating her based on sexism etc that proved to not be the case and now she's making accusations that, well, some are debunked, some are meh and some are meh but concerning when you take something like asthma into account. So yeah, it's not about him, it's about her so stay on topic. She comes across as someone who likes to sling guns before she sees the innocent people in the room and then tries to escape the fall out of her actions.

Which are "debunked"?

 

[teitan]

Which are "debunked"?

I’d need to finish digging but there is a long thread on the Pf2e Facebook group talking about this.. if I get the time I’ll dig but off the top of my head: she claimed Paizo was in debt to the mob. No. Their printing house was a cover for a money laundering scheme. The claim makes it seem like Lisa Stevens and company got a loan or something from the mafia. They paid for printing costs.

 

[billd91]

Oh no, I get it, but she celebrated his death and you just basically... excused it. It's not a relative thing, it's a very black & white issue. Is he Hitler or Mussolini?

To quote Clarence Darrow, “I have never killed any one, but I have read some obituary notices with great satisfaction.”

Oh yeah, I’ve been highly satisfied with the deaths of certain people well below the ranks of Hitler or Mussolini.

 

[Umbran]

She comes across as someone who likes to sling guns before she sees the innocent people in the room and then tries to escape the fall out of her actions.

Mod Note:
There were already two warnings that this thread would not be an argument about her character, which you have chosen to ignore.

You will not be posting in this thread further. For everyone else, this is the third, and final, warning.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Deleted due to above
Posted prior to seeing it.

 

[darjr]

Ope, sorry responded to someone who can't post here.

 

[darjr]

 

[Justice and Rule]

So I take it you're browsing the Megathread as well, since I think I found this moments before you posted it.

 

[darjr]

Which mega thread?

 

[Justice and Rule]

Which mega thread?

On the PF2 reddit. Sorry, I suppose I was assuming more crossover at the moment. But that post does a good job at summing up a lot of reactions at the moment.

 

[darjr]

On the PF2 reddit. Sorry, I suppose I was assuming more crossover at the moment. But that post does a good job at summing up a lot of reactions at the moment.

ah.

No I think I follow her partner on twitter.

 

[Eltab]

1) We're not a jury; this isn't a courtroom where we are weighing whether to issue criminal or financial penalties to Paizo. The idea that we are not allowed to have opinions on things others tell us until a jury or administrative body has issued a formal ruling on their claims is ridiculous, and nobody operates that way in their ordinary lives.

2) False dilemma, counselor; people who post things on Twitter are not doing so because they had to choose between Twitter or a courtroom and chose the former. People are allowed to - and do - talk about things on Twitter whether or not they are able to take legal action about those things.

That's not helpful or an accurate description of the situation.

Courts have to work with people who are fully truthful and tell what they saw / did / felt accurately; people who are lying all the way; people who are mostly honest but want to diminish their role in an event in some way; people who like the spotlight; everything you can imagine between 100% truthful and 0% truthful. And the Court has to figure out "what happened" from all that. The Court's methods have evolved over hundreds of years to better attain that goal.

Anybody who wants to can emulate (as your resources will permit) the Courts' methods of ferreting out Fact from Fiction. You do not have to wait for a Court to render a verdict before you are allowed to research on your own. One simple principle is "let all things be determined by the testimony of two or three witnesses". One person alone making a claim is weaker than several people whose statements reinforce each others'. And we have that now. So we can move forward, not fuss at each other about 'who do you believe' and/or 'you are not allowed to disbelieve Person X'.

The next place I would look is physical evidence: let's see that carpet. The off-color gifts / pictures. This step will help clear out smoke and mirrors, determine what is a solid accusation. Importantly: delivering incontrovertible physical evidence of misbehavior to Person Z's boss is more likely to result in firings and policy changes than just the Internet flamethrower running on hot emotion.

There is more than one way to achieve an objective; prefer the ones that work best.

 

[darjr]

 

[SkidAce]

Read the whole thread. He apparently is really into Theosophy, a 19th century racist religious movement, and would display art with Nazi-adjacent symbols over his desk where it was visible during work meetings. After being told it made employees uncomfortable.

I had't heard of Theosophy so I looked it up.

I dont see the racist connection, but may have missed it. In fact there was a line about respecting all regardless of race, creed, sex etc?

Theosophy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Parmandur]

I had't heard of Theosophy so I looked it up.

I dont see the racist connection, but may have missed it. In fact there was a line about respecting all regardless of race, creed, sex etc?

Theosophy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is some controversy around this, particularly people wanting to salvage the ideas after WW2 in spite of theosophy being part of the soup of the Fascist scene, but you can find a bit more on this wiki:

Theosophical mysticism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org