Just saw RotJ Spec. Ed. on DVD for the first time...

[Brother Shatterstone]

And RotS provides evidence of FTL transmissions across the Holonet.

As does ESB. “What is thy bidding my master?”

People did notice that Empire Palpatine wasn’t really in the same room correct?

 

[Vocenoctum]

It's still an Urban Legend… It was meant as a joke and should be looked as a joke not a religion.

While I can understand... it's not an Urban Legend, because it DID happen. People DID put Jedi down for religion. The motives of them may be humor, or fandom, or just nutjobs, but it's there.

So, really, Rakhir is right, people did put their religion as Jedi.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

So, really, Rakhir is right, people did put their religion as Jedi.

Right... but the orginal post that started this whole side topic:

Apparently 0.7% of the population of England lists their religion on survays as "Jedi". So I suspect that not only will people care, but it's likely that there will have been religious wars and killings over those sorts of things.

Still isn't valued. (IMHO)

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I'm sure that 70 years ago people said, "Who's going to care about these movie serials?", yet you can still find them in most video stores. There are even books about them.

Right but they aren't mainstream, are they?

I'm sure if Lucas released the OT on DVD today, it would sell very well.

I'm sure they would, I would buy them myself but that's different cause I'll buy the super big set even though I have all of them already, but that's not 70 years from now when I'm sure that even the current version we have no will not sale much at all. (just like the originals… even though the originals have never been released upon VCR cassette.)

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Some of Robert E. Howard's stories are over 70 years old. Most people don't consider them great literature, but they're certainly still known and appreciated - and recently re-released to, I assume, at least decent sales since the publisher issuing them continues to do so.

While I for one vastly prefer the Conan stories (or any other Howard series) to Star Wars and consider them superior across the board, they certainly didn't have the kind of broad cultural saturation the latter boasted/boasts.

If Conan still gets action figures, re-issued story collections, a successful licensed RPG, an upcoming MMORPG, new authors writing new stories, comic books from two companies and possibly a third movie... I'd say Star Wars will still be available and of interest 70 years from now.

 

[Kai Lord]

As to why people would want the originals instead of the special editions in the future, ask yourself how many people own copies of the new, "improved" colorized versions of King Kong, Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon, It's A Wonderful Life, or Night Of The Living Dead? Sometimes people prefer the original versions.

And how many of those updated movies were "improved" by their original creators? I suspect Star Wars will be just like The Hobbit novel or Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Both were revised by their creators after initially being released to the public and most people aren't even aware of it, much less have a problem with it. If we somehow discovered a series of *inferior* scripts written by William Shakespeare of Romeo and Juliet 20 years before the story we all know today, it'd be an interesting find and nothing more, even if a small minority preferred those versions.

People who see the updated Star Wars films for the first time don't even bat an eye when the Greedo scene occurs. I liked it the old way, but I also like new X-Wings, Jabba scene, and restored picture quality even more. The movie's better, I'm happy, life goes on. Oh no, the movies aren't perfect, not every revision was for the better. Well guess what, the film's were never perfect, and no movie is.

 

[mojo1701]

People who see the updated Star Wars films for the first time don't even bat an eye when the Greedo scene occurs. I liked it the old way, but I also like new X-Wings, Jabba scene, and restored picture quality even more. The movie's better, I'm happy, life goes on. Oh no, the movies aren't perfect, not every revision was for the better. Well guess what, the film's were never perfect, and no movie is.

The voice of reason.

 

[Villano]

And how many of those updated movies were "improved" by their original creators? I suspect Star Wars will be just like The Hobbit novel or Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Both were revised by their creators after initially being released to the public and most people aren't even aware of it, much less have a problem with it. If we somehow discovered a series of *inferior* scripts written by William Shakespeare of Romeo and Juliet 20 years before the story we all know today, it'd be an interesting find and nothing more, even if a small minority preferred those versions.

Well, there is a difference in the Shakespeare analogy since you are comparing films which were seen by millions of people long before the special editions with an unknown discovery. An unproduced play is different from a blockbuster film.

You are right that there aren't that many cases of creators going back and altering their films. Usually, you end up with a "director's cut" after the movie hits video or DVD, but, in thoses cases, it's usually because the director isn't happy with changes the studio made.

One case I can think of when the director simply changed his mind is Donnie Darko. From what I understand, people seem to like the original much better. In this case, like the special editions, people would rather watch the original.

There is also the John Carpenter example. He took a film he made, Assault On Precinct 13, and remade it as Ghosts Of Mars. He also virtually remade Escape From New York when he did Escape From LA. People like the originals better.

In other words, people like the new versions if they are actually better and the orignals if they think they were made worse. Most people, critics included, don't like the special edition of the first Star Wars as much as the original.

People who see the updated Star Wars films for the first time don't even bat an eye when the Greedo scene occurs.

No, I think people do notice the Greedo scene since it just looks so odd. He's two feet away with his gun aimed at Han's chest, but he fires up in the air? Kind of like when Van Helsing fired his grappling gun from the top of the castle to a tree 3 miles away. They just look at the screen and say, "Oh, come on!"

 

[Kai Lord]

Well, there is a difference in the Shakespeare analogy since you are comparing films which were seen by millions of people long before the special editions with an unknown discovery.

Actually I wasn't comparing the Skakespeare plays with my experience or your experience, but rather with the "millions of people" that have had their first viewing of Star Wars between now and 1997 be of the Special Editions. For those millions, I wager most will see viewing the originals as going back a step and less entertaining. Imagine now only a couple of years after Return of the King if Peter Jackson released a "work in progress" edition, with 1977-style stop motion effects for all the oliphants, fell beasts, and Shelob and orcs wearing masks that have visible seams, and instead of 200,000 orcs they show 20 extras in costume marching across a field. But *one* random scene toward the beginning of the movie is actually a little less awkward, would you suddenly trash your pristine DVD of the current version so you could watch all the dated and unconvincing effects of the work in progress? That's what some expect people are going to do with Star Wars. Time will tell, but I don't see it happening. The new generation, and many of the old, just don't care about the trivial missteps of the Special Editions.

In other words, people like the new versions if they are actually better and the orignals if they think they were made worse. Most people, critics included, don't like the special edition of the first Star Wars as much as the original.

To quote a line from Napoleon Dynamite, "Like anyone could possibly know that." You really can't say for certain that most people like the originals more. Millions have been introduced to Star Wars since 1997. Of those who I personally know, none of them prefer the originals.

No, I think people do notice the Greedo scene since it just looks so odd. He's two feet away with his gun aimed at Han's chest, but he fires up in the air? Kind of like when Van Helsing fired his grappling gun from the top of the castle to a tree 3 miles away. They just look at the screen and say, "Oh, come on!"

Maybe the tree was about to turn him over to Jabba....

 

[Felix]

I liked it the old way, but I also like new X-Wings, Jabba scene, and restored picture quality even more. The movie's better, I'm happy, life goes on.

So the benefits outweigh the costs for you, eh?

Well, yes. The re-done movies are indeed shinier. They have more bright lights and loud sounds. The explosions are more explosivey. That's a definite gain there.

What's lost? To me (and why should I care about what first-time viewers think when I can only judge a film on my preferences and not their ignorance?), the Han-Greedo scene edit fundamentally changes the character of Han Solo. This is not a relatively trivial change from 10 X-wings to 50, but a series-shocking reversal of character.

What Han was, was a rogue who will smuggle if there's money in it, kill in cold blood, deal with gangsters, and generally do what's in his own monetary interest.

Lucas tried to make Han a shinier, happier person by not having him strike first when being threatened by a blaster, but instead making sure that Greedo's intent was to kill him, and only then acting. He was insiting on the proverbial smoking gun.

This changes his character. And it changes his character for the worse. With the new Han, the character development from rogue to hero over the course of the movies isn't as intense because we begin with someone who refuses to kill when held at gunpoint.

So... back to cost/benefit:
More, shinier spaceships.
vs
Radically different Han.

Give me my good old time Han. It's the characters and the story that matters anyway, not the FX.

ps. I won't even get into the added Jabba scene... who once was a mysteriou and feared gangsterous agent who turns out to be an imposing and viscious slug-thing... becomes a sniveling wanna-be wise guy who lets the sensitized Han push him around. Ugh.