D&D General Just sweeping dirty dishes under the rug: D&D, Sexism, and the '70s

[MGibster]

I think people don’t like PC classes that can’t be villains, and I’ve seen more paladins as the BBEG than bards.

Snarf has some sort of pathological dislike of Bards. We've done our best to get help for him, but you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. When he starts talking about Bards most of us just nod our heads, smile, and hope we never incur his wrath.

Like, that was the stuff that I actually hated about the game, even as a puberty stricken teen, I didn’t want to be seen with that sort of stuff. It was not just objectifying, but it also looked like the kinda stuff a guy who had zero chance of getting a girl to talk to would have. Incel wasn’t a term, but you definitely would not associate “chick magnet” with the dude who has the TSR “1993 Women of Fantasy” calendar.

Back when I was in high school, I'd rather have people see me with Playboy than a copy of the Player's Handbook or anything else marked AD&D. There were girls I dated in high school who never learned I played RPGs.

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

Back when I was in high school, I'd rather have people see me with Playboy than a copy of the Player's Handbook or anything else marked AD&D. There were girls I dated in high school who never learned I played RPGs.

You dated girls in high school?! What a stud.

 

[MGibster]

You dated girls in high school?! What a stud.

My dude, I was on the wrestling team! I was in good enough shape to wear a singlet and not be embarrassed. When the football players joined the team during their offseason I'd toss them around like ragdolls. I was on top of the world, ma! On top of the world!

 

[Clint_L]

Different countries use different formal terms for this.

In the US, “r” was the formal, respectful, preferred, and correct term for decades. E.g, ARC, a major organization helping people with this disability, had “R” meaning what you think it means. But it was nevertheless used as an insult, so things eventually changed and the nice word became unnice.

There’s a weird process where the formal term becomes delegitimized. It happens with ethnicities too. Sometimes old terms come back around too.

I’m not even sure what the preferred US term for “r” is now. I use “MR”, because a relative who’s married to a special educator uses it. I would guess that’s a medical/special ed term, but someone also thinks it’s wrong because they prefer some newer neologism.

I think that linguistic pattern is also about establishing authority, in groups, and boundaries. Ever changing cant makes it easy to exclude and demean others who didn’t get the memo of the term change.

That last paragraph sounds like a cop out. The R word is super demeaning and insulting and you should never use it, in conjunction with another word or not. I grew up with a speech impediment and my son has ASD, and I can think of few crueler words.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

We do categorize reasons for termination.

Termination > Voluntary > Other Job
Termination > Involuntary > Workforce Reduction
Termination > Voluntary > Retirement
Termination > Involuntary > Performance
Termination > Involuntary > Gross Misconduct
Termination > Voluntary > Moving
Termination > Involuntary > Death
Termination > Voluntary > Education

This is a good example of a word with a technical meaning (ending) which has acquired connotations (killing with prejudice) through usage. Movies are not irrelevant, they both shape, and are shaped by, culture.

This is why writers often use a thesaurus to seek out just the right word to use. Words have shades of meaning beyond their literal definition.

 

[Hussar]

This is a good example of a word with a technical meaning (ending) which has acquired connotations (killing with prejudice) through usage. Movies are not irrelevant, they both shape, and are shaped by, culture.

This is why writers often use a thesaurus to seek out just the right word to use. Words have shades of meaning beyond their literal definition.

And frequently this gets weaponized in discussions as people will ignore connotations that are inconvenient in order to try to force conversations down certain paths.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

As to the particular topic, well, even as a member of the target audience at the time, I felt the sexualization and objectification was ridiculous in the 80s & 90s TSR stuff (the “Women of Fantasy” calendars were sold through at least 1994) and, honestly, they weren’t cool, but cringe.

However, a separate product is far more appropriate place for such art than gaming material. Then at least people can opt out. Not that I think it is a sort of thing that a gaming company needs to be publishing.

 

[PHATsakk43]

However, a separate product is far more appropriate place for such art than gaming material. Then at least people can opt out. Not that I think it is a sort of thing that a gaming company needs to be publishing.

It really didn’t matter if the art was completely devoid of chain mail bikinis or even if it were crude completely unsexualized stuck figures, that the product exists is an example of TSR both “knowing their audience” as well as being a hard piece of evidence that at least TSR was on board with objectification at a minimum.

As to that “knowing their audience” bit, it honestly reminds me of when indoor smoking bans were proposed. The bar industry was absolutely sure that it would ruin them. Come to find out, the smokers had long been out numbered by non-smokers who were actually more comfortable in the bar or restaurant without the smoke. For the most part, sales and patrons increased.

Smokers didn’t stop drinking at bars, they just stopped smoking in them. Gaming is no different.

 

[Umbran]

Different countries use different formal terms for this.

We are not here to argue whether the word should or shouldn't be considered a slur.

 

[mamba]

What makes you think it was deliberately done?

the fact that he kept doubling down and continuing to do so even after it was pointed out repeatedly?

That seems like the most uncharitable take possible?

or the only one consistent with the facts…