Kip up

[Ovinomancer]

The kip up ability as printed in Complete Adventurer allows a character/creature to stand up as a free action as long as they make a high DC tumble check. Failure to succeed the check means standing takes a move action as normal. Here is my dilemma:

I have a Dervish in my group that can automatically make the DC of the tumble check to free stand. Can he use this ability during his devish dance?

One of my players made the arguement that since failure requires that you expend a move action to stand that you need to have a move action left in order to use the kip up ability. He used an analogy to make his point: In order to play a game you must pay $5. If you win the game, you get your money back. Just because you will automatically win the game does not mean that you don't have to have $5 to play.

Your opinions?

 

[diaglo]

he could make his standard action into a move action if he failed.

i'm not familiar with the dervish dance mechanic.

 

[Ovinomancer]

For purposes of this argument, the only important factor of the dervish dance is that it is a full round action.

 

[Shin Okada]

A dervish using dervish dance can make a full attack and move. But he does not need to do it every round. He can perform other actions (such as casting spells) if he wants.

So, if his first action is kip up, he can first see if he can stand up as a free action, then if it become possible, now can take any full-round action (including a full-attack) or 1 standard action + 1 move action, 2 move actions and such. If he fail in a tumble roll (in some reason), he can stand up as a move action and take a standard action (or a move action).

 

[Brain]

I think he should be able to do it. If there is no chance of failure, then there is no chance of having to use a move action. Even if there was a chance of failure, I'd let him try and if he failed then stay prone (but probably still provoke an AoO for trying)

 

[Shallown]

I think the pointis Kip up changes the cost not the success of the action. So you have to be able to pay the cost regardless of the outcome.

The fact this particular character can do it by taking ten does not make it automatic since there are lots of actions others could take that would make taking 10 fail such as readied actions etc.

So he could fail therefore he has to be able to pay the failure price. Which is a move action not remaining prone or any other house rule (Unless the GM rules it as such).

The question came up becuase he had already begun to dervish dance meaning he was in the middle of a full round action and had no actions to use except a free action (Couldn't even 5 foot step since he had moved).

 

[apesamongus]

The question came up becuase he had already begun to dervish dance meaning he was in the middle of a full round action and had no actions to use except a free action (Couldn't even 5 foot step since he had moved).

Just out of curiosity, how did he end up on his ass in the middle of his own turn? Countertrip?

 

[The Souljourner]

If it works automatically, then saying you need a move action left is being too anal. He gets a free stand up. He spent a ton of skillpoints to get there, and it's not exactly game breaking.

-The Souljourner

 

[CRGreathouse]

He needs a move action open to use this ability. Ordinarily he could just kip up at the beginning of his turn, but if he's already committed to a full round action he's out of luck.

Of course had he only made one attack of a full attack he could still make the kip up, since he could have chosen to make it a single attack (per PH combat chapter).

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Don't forget that the "kip-up" still provokes an AoO!