Knife of Dreams - SPOILERS!

Starman

Adventurer
I wanted to start a thread about the book for those of us who have finished reading it, so we could discuss spoilers.

Things I liked:
-Perrin FINALLY rescuing Faile
-Most of the Mat chapters, especially Tuon completing the marriage ceremony
-Elayne FINALLY securing her throne
-Rand going nuts on the shadowspawn that attacked the manor he was staying at. One man army.
-Getting to read Moiraine's letter to Thom and Mat agreeing to help him rescue her
-Rand revealing one of his questions and answers from beyond the twisted door ter'angreal
-Nynaeve setting Lan up to lead an army to Tarwin's Gap
-Galad killing Valda and taking control of a large number of Children
-Loial marrying Erith

Things I didn't like:
-The battles seemed too easy-Perrin's battle against the Shaido, the shadowspawn attacking Rand and co., Mat's battles with the Seanchan, Elayne's final battle for Caemlyn. I never really got a sense that the good guys could lose.
-Not enough Rand. He is at the center of everything and he just wasn't around much, more than CoT, but not enough.
-Stupid Forsaken. These guys are retarded. They are just now spreading the word that Mat and Perrin need to die? Sure, Ishmael did back in TGH, but you'd think it would have remained a high priority. Semirhage's attempt at kidnapping Rand was also pathetic.
-Speaking of Semirhage's kidnapping attempt, Rand's loss of his hand seemed anticlimatic. I guess I was expecting a lot more with that. Hopefully Mat losing/trading in his eye is more exciting.
-The White Tower split is really starting to bore me. I want it over with.

Thoughts?
 
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Aris Dragonborn

First Post
I just finished the book five minutes ago, and planned on starting a similar thread, but it seems you beat me to it. :p

My thoughts:

Things I liked:
-Perrin FINALLY rescuing Faile
-Most of the Mat chapters, especially Tuon completing the marriage ceremony
-Elayne FINALLY securing her throne
-Rand going nuts on the shadowspawn that attacked the manor he was staying at. One man army.
-Getting to read Moiraine's letter to Thom and Mat agreeing to help him rescue her
-Rand revealing one of his questions and answers from beyond the twisted door ter'angreal
-Nynaeve setting Lan up to lead an army to Tarwin's Gap
-Galad killing Valda and taking control of a large number of Children
-Loial marrying Erith

Yes, I was QUITE glad that Perrin finally rescued his wife. The only thing I didn't like about the whole situation was that I thought that Jordan dragged it out too long (but with all the other sub-plots he had to deal with, who could blame him?)

Poor Mat. No matter how hard he tried, he still ended up married AND a noble to boot. Prince of the Ravens indeed.

The Elayne chapters were probably my least favorite, but still well done.

Rand/Lews Therin throwing those Deathgates and Fire Blossoms around was almost as cool as the Rolling Ring of Earth and Fire at Dumai's Wells.

I was happy to see Lan return to the Borderlands to rouse support for Rand, and even more thrilled to see Nynaeve rousing support for Lan (The Golden Crane stands for Tarmon Gaidon!).

So, Galad is Lord Captain of the Children now. Could be interesting. We'll see.

I liked the marriage scene too, but even moreso the image I got of Loial and Elder Haman running through the halls, ears laid back and axes at the ready. I never thought of Loial speaking at the Great Stump to rouse the Ogier.


Things I didn't like:
-The battles seemed to easy-Perrin's battle against the Shaido, the shadowspawn attacking Rand and co., Mat's battles with the Seanchan, Elayne's final battle for Caemlyn. I never really got a sense that the good guys could lose.
-Not enough Rand. He is at the center of everything and he just wasn't around much, more than CoT, but not enough.
-Stupid Forsaken. These guys are retarded. They are just now spreading the word that Mat and Perrin need to die? Sure, Ishmael did back in TGH, but you'd think it would have remained a high priority. Semirhage's attempt at kidnapping Rand was also pathetic.
-Speaking of Semirhage's kidnapping attempt, Rand's loss of his hand seemed anticlimatic. I guess I was expecting a lot more with that. Hopefully Mat losing/trading in his eye is more exciting.
-The White Tower split is really starting to bore me. I want it over with.

Why are you complaining? We don't have to read about Faile being a prisoner anymore! :lol: But I know what you mean. I think that part of it might be that we all know what has to happen for Rand to stand a chance to reach the Last Battle, and we also know that Jordan is going to write the stories to that end. We just don't know how he's going to do it (the particulars, I mean).

As for the rest, the Forsaken are retarded, because they're still underestimating their enemies. The flat refuse to entertain the notion that Rand is anywhere near as powerful as Lew Therin, or that he is Lew Therin reborn. They just can't fathom that any of his allies could defeat them, and that is part of what causes them to act the way they do.

And I think the White Tower will be re-united by the half-way point in the last book. And I also think that there is going to be a lot of Rand in the last book also.

Overall, a great book (considering that I finished in um, two days). I'll probably end up going back through the series again, just to put it into proper perspective.

Cheers!
 

Starman

Adventurer
Aris Dragonborn said:
Yes, I was QUITE glad that Perrin finally rescued his wife. The only thing I didn't like about the whole situation was that I thought that Jordan dragged it out too long (but with all the other sub-plots he had to deal with, who could blame him?)

I agree that it dragged far too long. The other odd thing about the rescue was Faile's reaction to Rolan's death. I expected more there. I didn't mind seeing Rolan die, though he was cool, her reaction was just odd. Aram's betrayal was a bit too quick, as well.

Aris Dragonborn said:
Poor Mat. No matter how hard he tried, he still ended up married AND a noble to boot. Prince of the Ravens indeed.

That part was great. Mat's chapters were again the most enjoyable overall, even if there were individual parts I like more.

Aris Dragonborn said:
Rand/Lews Therin throwing those Deathgates and Fire Blossoms around was almost as cool as the Rolling Ring of Earth and Fire at Dumai's Wells.

Definitely. I wanted to jump up and cheer reading about that.

Aris Dragonborn said:
I was happy to see Lan return to the Borderlands to rouse support for Rand, and even more thrilled to see Nynaeve rousing support for Lan (The Golden Crane stands for Tarmon Gaidon!).

Another part that made me want to jump up and cheer.

Aris Dragonborn said:
Why are you complaining? We don't have to read about Faile being a prisoner anymore! :lol: But I know what you mean. I think that part of it might be that we all know what has to happen for Rand to stand a chance to reach the Last Battle, and we also know that Jordan is going to write the stories to that end. We just don't know how he's going to do it (the particulars, I mean).

That's probably part of it. I still think, though, that he could make it feel more deadly. Having more of the minor characters die off in these battles would help.

Aris Dragonborn said:
As for the rest, the Forsaken are retarded, because they're still underestimating their enemies.

That's the thing, though. They've been set back in their plans so many times by now, you would think that one of them might start taking Rand and co. more seriously.

Aris Dragonborn said:
Overall, a great book (considering that I finished in um, two days). I'll probably end up going back through the series again, just to put it into proper perspective.

Despite some quibbles, I definitely enjoyed it, as well. It was much more exciting than the last couple of books.
 

Bran Blackbyrd

Explorer
Starman said:
Things I liked:
-Perrin FINALLY rescuing Faile
It's about time too.
-Most of the Mat chapters, especially Tuon completing the marriage ceremony
Absolutely. Mat chapters almost never disappoint.
-Elayne FINALLY securing her throne.
About time on that one too. What annoys me about this (and this applies to a lot of the plot threads in the series) is the lack of communication. Elayne is still miffed about Rand saying he'd "give" her the throne. If any of these characters would spend five minutes talking to each other, they'd have the world in the palm of their hand. If he'd just open his mouth, she'd realize he actually has a better claim to Andor's throne than she does.
-Rand going nuts on the shadowspawn that attacked the manor he was staying at. One man army.
Deathgates and Blossoms of Fire! One man army!
-Getting to read Moiraine's letter to Thom and Mat agreeing to help him rescue her
Yes, and it appears that the party will consist of Mat, Thom and Jain Farstrider.

To which I might add:
-The last 7 pages of chapter 23. Especially when Jahar demands that the Rebel Sitters remember Eben Hopwil, who died defending his bonded Aes Sedai. I have to admit, that choked me up.
-Aram dies. It's about freakin' time. Now let's move on.
-Battlemaster Mat steps up and delivers once again.
-Halima'gar is finally revealed for what she/he is. Too bad she wasn't captured too.
-Egwene produces more interesting chapters than she has in ages.
-The midwife tastes Elayne's urine. The readers have been doing it for a few thousand pages, so it's about time it actually happened to someone in the book instead. I'm not an Elayne hater (there are a lot of them out there) but she's held the spotlight during some of the most boring drivel for the last three or four books... plus her knack for getting kidnapped and costing unnecessary lives is getting old (see below).

Things I didn't like:
-Not enough Rand. He is at the center of everything and he just wasn't around much, more than CoT, but not enough.
Yup. Not enough Rand.
-Stupid Forsaken. These guys are retarded. They are just now spreading the word that Mat and Perrin need to die? Sure, Ishmael did back in TGH, but you'd think it would have remained a high priority. Semirhage's attempt at kidnapping Rand was also pathetic.
And as close as she came to killing him instead of blowing off a limb... she's lucky the good guys have her captive because Moridin would have her for breakfast.
-Speaking of Semirhage's kidnapping attempt, Rand's loss of his hand seemed anticlimatic. I guess I was expecting a lot more with that. Hopefully Mat losing/trading in his eye is more exciting.
It would be hard not to feel anticlimactic; it's been about five books since they first foreshadowed it. I'm just glad it's done with. As for Mat; he's got a ton of Odin symbolism going, I suppose he'll eventually get maimed as well... It's all fun and games until you become the Prince of Ravens and lose an eye.
-The White Tower split is really starting to bore me. I want it over with.
Egwene needs to hurry up and start kicking ass and taking names; diplomatically speaking, of course.

To which I might add:
-Masema is still alive? Forget Lanfear, the whole plotline with Masema and his army is what created 'The Bore'.
-Windfinders... They irritate the ever-lovin' crap right outta me.
-The Rebel Sitters dismayed reaction when the Ashaman offer to let the rebel Aes Sedai bond Ashaman as warders, but then find out it will only let them break even with the number of Ashaman that have bonded Aes Sedai. Aes Sedai: Biggest Hypocrites Ever. It's called equality, witches; choke on that. Certain Aes Sedai are ok, but after I had to read the 353,000th specific Aes Sedai character's name, I started to hate them as a group.
-Elayne gets kidnapped for what must be the eight-hundredth time. Only Gabrielle from Xena got kidnapped and/or held at 'weaponpoint' more than this. Maybe one of these days she'll come up with a plan that doesn't end up costing anywhere from a dozen to five hundred lives because she rushed in without thinking. And this was against darkfriends that got their butts kicked in the first couple books. Was the balefire weapon destroyed or recovered? I don't remember hearing about it after the windfinder got off her high horse and fried the BA that was holding it. Most *'angreals aren't very easy to destroy.
-rant Perrin's total dedication to sacrificing a gazillion lives for Faile. Okay, he loves her, but could he do it in a less self-centered, selfish way? Even when he sees Rand's hand is missing he basically says, "Sorry, I don't have time for so much as a mental 'that's gotta hurt' I'm too busy sacrificing an army of good guys so I can rescue one person." I have news for Perrin; without Rand he'd have no army for rescuing Faile, in fact, he'd have never met her. /rant

Despite the gripes, I really do love the series As A Whole.
 

Eosin the Red

First Post
Alrighty then...


MUCH better than the last book but Elayne still left a bad taste in my mouth. Not the best in the series but well done.

The big draw for me was the story moved at a good clip and the plot moved waaaayyy forward. We know the last battle is here.. everyone knows they are facing TG. Time to stop squabbling and get to whacking the DO.

Mat's stuff was good but I would have liked to have seen him get to the Tower. Enough I say, let Moir ride free. I liked the Mat & Tuan stuff.

Perrin's stuff pretty much dragged in the set up but you knew that had to happen. Should have just gone and killed Maisema. He needs a few more Ashaman... It ain't like he can't just send Grady for a few?

Rand's stuff rocked on toast. Short one hand and going blind.. ugly, but down with another Forsaken.

Egwene's chapters were by far some of my favorites. Wow, she has shaped up. I am also ready for her to start to proverbial booty stomp... I want to see Elaidia(?) howl.

Best parts of the book.... "The Golden Crane!," "Remember Eben," Moir's Letter, and Valda vs Galad.

PS - I think SH might have had shot at success but she fell victim to the unsteadiness of the OP. Still, a pretty dicey play for one as careful and patient as herself.

Samael??
 

Starman

Adventurer
Eosin the Red said:

I'm really curious to find out what's going on here, too. If Sammael really is still around, and it's possible being his death was ambiguous, what the hell has he been up to since the end of A Crown of Swords?
 

ToddSchumacher

I like to draw!
So many cool things happen in this book. Many commented above so I won't repeat.

I loved that we get Tam's questions to Perrin about Rand, his and the Village reaction to the Ahsa'man recruiting. All that, and looking forward to seeing a meeting between Tam and Rand. I know I amy not see it in the next book, but I look forward to it. I've always enjoyed Tam scenes.

I liked that Tuon even called Mat 'Toy' while thinking of him!

I can't wait until the others learn of his marriage.

I had hoped that we got to see the rescue of Morraine, but Mat knowing of it, and her mentioned in Rand scenes showing that plot moving forward, is good to see.
 

Samnell

Explorer
Starman said:
I'm really curious to find out what's going on here, too. If Sammael really is still around, and it's possible being his death was ambiguous, what the hell has he been up to since the end of A Crown of Swords?

I think it might be Demandred. I don't have my book on hand to check the Foresaken Coffee Hour in KoD to see his reaction or thoughts, though. Off chance it could have been Taim, but then one has to account for how he knows what Demandred looks like.
 

Starman

Adventurer
Samnell said:
I think it might be Demandred. I don't have my book on hand to check the Foresaken Coffee Hour in KoD to see his reaction or thoughts, though. Off chance it could have been Taim, but then one has to account for how he knows what Demandred looks like.

Demandred is a possibility. I don't have my book with me, either, but I do remember him acting suspicious when it was being discussed.
 

Samnell

Explorer
Starman said:
Demandred is a possibility. I don't have my book with me, either, but I do remember him acting suspicious when it was being discussed.

I recall that it was a Halima/Aran'gar/Balthemal POV too, which is unusual. A lot of the recent Foresaken Coffee Hours have been through Demandred's eyes.

Incidentally, remember the thing about there being two extra, unoccupied chairs at the table? Taim and Alviarin for Chosen in '08?
 

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