Lame Prestige Classes

[moritheil]

You know, some of us would still like to actually discuss prestige classes as they are, as opposed to nebulous ideas of why they might have been created, or who is misspeaking.

Can we please cut the sniping before a moderator has to do it by closing the thread?

I will be happy to do so. I do think, however, that pointing out which claims in a thread are unfounded is critical to a thread's health, if it is to be a discussion of things as they are, as opposed to nebulous ideas.

 

[moritheil]

My only real objection to prestige classes is the ruthless retro-building it requires at 1st level.

You can link up a great character concept with a perfect PrC, then you have to devise some trite reason for them to have 8 ranks in profession (sommelier), or contrive a situation where the PC must grapple an animated 4-poster bed in order to qualify.

That is indeed a problem. It's not so bad if you're talking about, say, ranks in healing for a cleric PrC, or something like that, but some PrCs do have really unnatural requirements.

 

[The Edge]

I dont mind the prestige classes, theres a couple which seem rather odd and I dont think Id use, but theres always a time for them. The Lore Master scares me though, not the class, I just wish the picture was different. The moment a player saw it he turned the page right away with a surprised face, and decided he didnt want it without even knowing the slightest of what it does.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

There are always going to be plenty of lame prestige classes, because not only are not all ideas well-realised in practice, but not all ideas appeal to "the masses".

Discussion of whether or not they're a legitimate element of the game seems arguing about what kind of lock should have been on the barn door. Meanwhile the horse is out eating your crops and impregnating your mares.

My tastes in game elements run to the non-traditional; I might not want to play or use the Green Star adept prestige class in my games, but it is thematically the sort of thing I like to see in D&D: going beyond imitations of Tolkien and borrowing ideas from "weird fiction".

I try very hard not to be too upset that most D&D players don't agree with me and would rather see more junk mechanics for elves.

 

[DaveMage]

I liked the "Prestige" classes in the Wizardry game (which IIRC is one of the sources for the inspiration for the D&D ones). The Lord and the Bishop were cool, and had extra abilities that you couldn't get elsewhere.

However, for D&D, I think I would rather have feat chains than prestige classes. (Wizardry didn't have feats.) Of course, to abolish the prestige system and just have feat chains, you'd need to redo how often feats are provided (many characters only get 5 feats by 12th level - hardly enough to create a prestige-like character).

Actually, the prestige class Archmage is pretty much a feat character - you get to choose a special ability each level. All one would need to do for any base class is to give an option of a special ability at certain levels, and voila, a prestige character.

As a DM, it's hard enough to be an expert in the 11 base classes, much less infinite prestige classes, so I wouldn't mind seeing them replaced with feat/special ability chains in 4E.

 

[MerricB]

The trouble with that is that you lose the ability to give really significant powers.

Classes like the Fochluchan Lyrist, Spellsword and Eldritch Knight are fascinating prestige classes that cannot be achieved by simple feats.

The multiclassing system of D&D, flawed though it occasionally may seem to be, is extremely powerful. You can trade off the penalty of taking multiple classes against the powers given later. Spellcasting can be lost for other abilities, and so forth.

The hybrid PrC has come into its own in 3.5e; there is still work to be done, but it is a much more interesting animal than what came before.

Cheers!

 

[NimrodvanHall]

Oh come now. Are you honestly suggesting that the assassin in the DMG represents a sect that existed on some world called "Earth" in 1531?

That's the etymology of the word. For common usage of the word, the assassin is a hired killer and lacks mystical overtones.

In holland a rather outspoken Director and Collumnist who ranted alot against the Quoran and the Islamic faith in particulair was killed about a year ago in a way quite similair to the ways of the origional Persian Assasin cult.

So they still excist (as "terrorist* copycats)

 

[Psion]

Now, is English not your first language, do you have a disability, or did you mistype?

That's just a bit rude, dontcha think?

 

[Eridanis]

Let's talk about the pros and cons of prestige classes in this thread, and not get angry at one another. More heated cross-talk and the thread goes clunk; no more warnings. (And keep away from politics, too, as usual.)

 

[Cartigan Mrryl]

I see where you're coming from, but this could just as easily be said about the ranger or paladin -- there isn't much mythology to support them as spell-casters, but standard D&D is a magical world, so spell-casting is not a rare ability. I would probably just de-emphasize the spell-ness of it in play and treat them more like special abilities.

Actually, paladin's have always been thought to have the Grace of God to aid them, DnD just takes it to a new level, he casts Divine Magic, which is (obviously) quite different from your average magic. I still don't get WHY th Ranger has Magic... I've ALWAYS taken the magic AWAY from the Ranger and given him an animal companion as well as the animal Empathy as a cross-class skill... it just seems to make more sense to me....