Lame Prestige Classes

[moritheil]

I should clarify my statement...They can be used as a crutch for roleplaying and storytelling.
If a player in my game expressed an interest in becoming an assassin, or created a concept for an assassin character, I would allow it. But the game and story would dictate how and when levels of assassin would be taken, not the requirements in the DMG. I would also change up when spells were allowed, and when poison use was allowed. It seems silly that an assassins guild would give out all of their secrets to a new recruit.
I should also mention that I view multiclassing similarly. I wouldn't allow the Bard in my group to spontaneously take a level in Barbarian, or a Fighter to take a level in Wizard without some in game explanation.

By "crutch," do you mean, "convenient way for the DM to not have to completely build a new class from scratch?"

 

[DMH]

I haven't seen many lame PrCs, but then I don't buy many books with PrCs. The worst of the bunch I do own is in Verdant World (you turn into a plant). It has a d12 HD and at 10th level the PC has regeneration 15 in sunlight. The second worst is also from that pdf. It is a plant slayer that, at 10th level, can kill square miles of vegetation in a week or two.

As for the concept instead of the mechanics, Wildscape has a druid that uses zombies and skeletons.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Assassin--this is a profession, not a class. But hey, let's throw spells on it, because that makes total sense thematically for the sneaky guy who kills people!

Well, I was going to take you to task for this particularly strange portrayal, but it would appear that a bunch of people already have. I'll just add:

The "Assassin" PrC isn't representative of all "assassins" in exactly the same way that the "Barbarian" class isn't representative of all "barbarians."

Anyone can kill someone else for money, and thus call themselves an "assassin."

The "Assassin" PrC represents a member of a typical fantasy-novel Assassin's Guild - you know, the kind who plague cities, make pacts with dark powers, etc.?

 

[Cherub]

Well its good to know that I am not the only one who thinks WOTC has become a bit of an expert at lumping together some seriously lame-ass PRC for the purpose of filling up a bunch of pages between two covers and attaching a hefty price tag to it to hook whoever sees it fit to part with their hard earned cash for them...its true what they say...there's one born every second...

I dont doubt the fact that with any stretch of ones imagination you could make even the most lame class, feat or prestige class work for you...but what continues to baffle me is why would one have to go to such lengths when one is paying good money for something that ought to demonstrate some semblance of quality, balance and utility...but thats just how it looks from here...

 

[lukelightning]

Paladins get magic because there are cleric-y warriors, it makes a little sense. Rangers get magic because of Tolkein; Aragorn used healing abilities, and he was a ranger, ergo rangers get healing. Yes, I know he had healing abilities because he was a true king or whatever, don't blame me I didn't make the class.

I see where you're coming from, but this could just as easily be said about the ranger or paladin --...

I loath the spells-tacked-on classes. Spellcasting should be something special, not something to give a class just 'cuz. Assassins should in no way get spells. You want to cast invisibility? Take some levels in sorcerer. If a class is supposed to be good at combat or skills, giving it magic to make it good at its area is wrong. Assassins are supposed to be invisible? Well they already stole the Shadowdancer's ability. Climb walls like a spider? Take lots of ranks in climb, or give a special ability. Disguise self? Again, skills and special abilities. The assassin class highlights how skills are fundamentally worthless in D&D; why use skills when low level magic is 10 times better?

 

[vrock]

So, I ask my players what classes they would like their character to take so we can incoirperate that in game.

Bingo! If one of my players finds a cool PrC that they'd like to play, they need to come to me first so the direction of the game and his character can lead in that direction. The requirements would be adjusted as dictated by the game.

 

[vrock]

By "crutch," do you mean, "convenient way for the DM to not have to completely build a new class from scratch?"

No. I'm refering to taking a PrC just for the cool abilities, and extra hit dice and not actually roleplaying the PrC. Example - Taking a level in Dwarven Defender when you aren't defending anything dwarven. That would be a crutch.

 

[Urbannen]

Eldritch Knight AND Spellsword: So, why did we need both?



I also dislike prestige classes in general. (They are great marketing gimmicks, of course.) I find the whole "10 level" thing to be unelegant, considering that most PrCs can be taken at 6th level. What happens after level 15? PrC's should have either been 20-level classes with stricter requirements than those of the core classes OR core class builds based on prestige feats.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Eldritch Knight AND Spellsword: So, why did we need both?

Because one works better for a fighter who wants to cast some spells, and the other works better for a wizard who wants to fight a bit?

 

[moritheil]

No. I'm refering to taking a PrC just for the cool abilities, and extra hit dice and not actually roleplaying the PrC. Example - Taking a level in Dwarven Defender when you aren't defending anything dwarven. That would be a crutch.

Ah, that would be metagaming, and an inattentive or impotent DM.