Lame Prestige Classes

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

you know, Patryn, your consistently condescending demeanor on these boards makes me wish that I could reach through my computer monitor and choke you into unconsciousness. Be glad that I can't.

There's an ignore button on these boards for a reason.

Feel free to use it.

EDIT: Nah - no humorous statements here.

 

[Pielorinho]

you know, Patryn, your consistently condescending demeanor on these boards makes me wish that I could reach through my computer monitor and choke you into unconsciousness. Be glad that I can't.

Moderator's Notes:

Forceuser, if you are by any chance unclear on why this is completely inappropriate, now's the time to private-message me or report this post with your questions. Otherwise, you will stop, NOW.

Daniel

 

[wingsandsword]

• Assassin--this is a profession, not a class. But hey, let's throw spells on it, because that makes total sense thematically for the sneaky guy who kills people!

• As many have said, Assassin is a class that represents the skill set of a trained professional killer. Also, an Assassin class is a D&D tradition, it was core in 1st edition, and only removed in 2nd because of the whole "D&D moral panic" that also lead to Demons & Devils being renamed. Thief is a profession, not a class, but we have those too (we just changed the name to "Rogue" now).
  
  

  [*]Devoted Defender--let's create a PrC whose shtick is taking hits for his buddies, which any character should be able to attempt.

  No, just any character should not be able to interrupt an attack and say "I throw myself in front of the attack", out of his initiative. The bodyguard is a archetype of fantasy. It works well as a BBEG's minion, and I've seen it played well as a PC bodyguard to another PC noble]
  
  

  [*]Dungeon Delver--a class that's really good at finding treasure and disarming traps? It's called the rogue, genius. Let's throw magic on this one too, just because spells are the quick fix to everything in 3E!

  It is a rogue who is specialized for dungeon crawls. There is more to being a rogue than finding treasure and disarming traps. The dungeon delver loses out big when in a wilderness adventure, or at sea, or in other places where he's not in an old-school dungeon crawl. If your campaign is nothing but dungeon crawls, then Dungeon Delver is pretty overpowered.
  
  

  [*]Forsaker--I hate magic! That's why I carry around bags of potions to destroy so I can keep my class features!
  [*]Frenzied Berserkzer--got an enchanter in your group to control this monstrosity? No? Then let it go.

  Both of these classes are good as NPC menaces, and aren't really good as PC's. Not every class has to be a perfect fit for PC's, some things are best left to the DM's toolkit. The Forsaker is a foe for the party with way too many magic items, while a Frenzied Berserker gets to be nigh-immune to HP damage (a nice way to counterbalance overpowered PC's who have min-maxed for huge damage totals), making the PC's have to get creative to shut it down.
  
  

  [*]Heirophant--what cleric or druid in his right mind is going to give up spell levelsfor a couple of tricks? Why would a heirophant be less powerful than a cleric or druid of equal level? Who designed this POS?

  Well, you'd probably be screaming it was overpowered if it gave you continued spellcasting. It's a place where balance is in the rules, you trade out spellcasting progression (but not caster level) for the ability to do very powerful things with your spells. The Heirophant/Archmage tricks are nothing to trifle with. They also make nice options for epic-level characters once they get to maximum casting progression at 20th level.
  
  

  [*]Red Wizard of Thay--what rocket scientist thought this was a good idea? "I cast fireball! Make a DC 24 Reflex save!"

  Hmm, as they said, a cabal-centered wizard is a staple of fantasy, and a Red Wizard it at heart a double-specialist, who trades off yet another school of magic. Trading that many schoolf of magic out for raw power in one is a risky gamble, I've seen many PC specialists who regretted losing a school of magic, and you might be able to throw mighty fireballs, but the rest of the party will be irriated at you not being able to Identify their items, Teleport them places, or give them buff spells. For an NPC, it makes a big, powerful cannon, a BBEG class that can be dangerous in a fight, and the disadvantages are less with minions to cast barred spells.
  
  None of the classes you listed were inherently worthless, just some are optimized towards certain campaign types (which if you mainly play that type of campaign, the class becomes much more powerful), or they are better suited as villains than PC's.

 

[interwyrm]

I think a red wizard can ALWAYS identify items as divination is not eligible to give up as a prohibited school.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

I dunno about all the above, but just the name Oozemaster squicks me out.

 

[Psion]

You know, there's only one thing wrong with the assassin PrC. One.

I'd say there's two, but you got the biggie.

I thought making them spontaneous casters in 3.5 was sort of silly.

That's the name.

Seriously. Change the name "assassin" to something else, make the PrC representatives of some dark secret society of mystically-oriented killers, and it's just fine.

Yup.

My default assassin (highly trained killer assassin, not "guy with a sword I gave a few gold to ambush my rival" assassin) is the Practical Ones from Libram Equitis.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'd say there's two, but you got the biggie.

I thought making them spontaneous casters in 3.5 was sort of silly.

Agree, actually. But that's really a personal flavor preference, I think.

Then again, in most of my campaigns, sorcery is a learned ability, just like wizardry. People can either study a broad range of spells--they're wizards--or a select group of spells so thoroughly that they can cast them without preparation--they're sorcerers.

The only "innate caster" in those campaigns is the warlock.

So under those circumstances, I have no issue with assassins having been made spontaneous. But when used with the RAW, I agree with you; I liked 'em better as wizard-like casters.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I thought making them spontaneous casters in 3.5 was sort of silly.

Though the idea of an assassin(or name him something else, but he's still a trained killer) having to carry a spellbook is also sort of silly.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Though the idea of an assassin(or name him something else, but he's still a trained killer) having to carry a spellbook is also sort of silly.

Except I never once pictured an assassin carrying his spellbok on a mission. He prepares for the day (or night), then sneaks out and does his thing. I always kinda felt the argument that it was "silly for him to have to carry a spellbook while sneaking around" was a bit silly, because he didn't have to.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Except I never once pictured an assassin carrying his spellbok on a mission. He prepares for the day (or night), then sneaks out and does his thing. I always kinda felt the argument that it was "silly for him to have to carry a spellbook while sneaking around" was a bit silly, because he didn't have to.

I agree to a point...but what about long missions far away from where he normally works? That's carrying a spellbook around. Not only that, but what if a PC picks up the class? I've never encountered a PC who would dare leave their spellbooks out of sight.

To me, at least, the Assassin's magic is just there to aid him. Subtle, little things that shouldn't really require a spellbook to keep. It also seems to make sense that an organization that trained such assassin's wouldn't dare allow their knowledge to get out to just everyone...so books would be bad.

Truthfully, I can see both sides of things. In all honesty, though, I just like the idea of spontaneous magic much more than spellbook magic. Both can be seen as learned and taught, too. But, of course, that's another discussion entirely.

EDIT: I guess the best way to put it is that the Assassin seems like the kind of character that fits the "Spells as I need it" style rather than the "Spells that I think I'll need" style.