D&D (2024) Lawful, Chaotic, and Neutral touched species.

[Celebrim]

I don't understand this.

Aasimar are not all good. Tieflings are not all evil. But aasimar have the powers of the upper planes and tieflings of the lower.

And therein is my problem. What would it mean to have powers of the upper planes to draw on if you weren't good? And how would those powers be good if the one drawing on them wasn't? Why would heaven as it were be in opposition to itself? And if the powers of the upper planes were good, wouldn't drawing on them be good as well? And if drawing on the powers of the upper planes is neither good nor evil, then why would we call them good? So this only works if the upper planes and lower planes aren't really the thing we say that they stand for at all, but merely just "hats" that things where with no more meaning than say a flag waved by a nation. This conception of aasimar are not all good but they can draw on the powers of the upper planes only works if we only are thinking of aasimar or indeed the upper planes as being a sort of tribe, or ethnicity, or species and they aren't all good either. And indeed, I really think that's what people are thinking, as witness the lore of popular media like Diablo or Spawn where it seems like fundamentally that's true.

But if that is the case, than well, this is at best being lazy and name dropping something for its resonance that really has nothing to do with what you are doing - we're calling them angels and demons and talking about upper planes and lower planes as if they had significance to cosmic reality but really they don't. And at worst, this is just cultural appropriation of the most disrespectful sort.

It would be one thing to be saying that aasimar are not all good and tieflings are not all evil, and they have no particular powers to draw upon, because their mortal nature dominates over any other part of their parentage. But there is a lot of "cake eating" in the conception that they get some power of their heritage that itsn't wholly the result of their evil or goodness, but that they also get all the free will of their mortal nature. Which goes back to my comparison of playing vampires as supers in leather jackets and ignoring the monstrous nature of the creature entirely. Cake eating.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And if drawing on the powers of the upper planes is neither good nor evil, then why would we call them good? So this only works if the upper planes and lower planes aren't really the thing we say that they stand for at all, but merely just "hats" that things where with no more meaning than say a flag waved by a nation.

But if that is the case, than well, this is at best being lazy and name dropping something for its resonance that really has nothing to do with what you are doing - we're calling them angels and demons and talking about upper planes and lower planes as if they had significance to cosmic reality but really they don't. And at worst, this is just cultural appropriation of the most disrespectful sort.

This is exactly how alignment worked before D&D got drunk and weird.

 

[Minigiant]

Bedlams​

Sometimes transform of a slaad infection does not take. Just like the forces of chaos, the formation of one of the world's most chaotic creatures does not always follow the plans. The blue slaad tadpole merges with its victim. The inflected resists the rad slaadi chaos plague. The person is changed forever. Their heritage and origins are washed away with raw chaos. The remainder is a mutant with a vague froglike form of strong color.

Creature Type: Humanoid
Size: Medium (about 4–7 feet tall) or Small (about 3–4 feet tall), chosen when you select this Race
Speed: 30 feet
Lifespan: 100 years on average

As a Bedlam, you have these following traits

Slaadi History: Your past is tied to the slaad and it has given you supernatural abilities tied to the powers of chaos. When you finish a Long Rest, roll a d6. You gain the feature associated to number rolled until you finish another long rest.

1: Claws. You can make an unarmed strike that deals 1d6 Slashing damage.
2: Fangs. As a bonus action you can make a unarmed strike that deals Piercing damage.
3: Martial Knowledge. You have proficiency and mastery with the greatsword.
4: Arcane Knowledge: You know the mage hand cantrip.
5: Gills: You can breath air and water
6: Telepathy: You have telepathy of 60 feet.

Font of Chaos: You know and can cast the chaos bolt spell. Once you cast the Spell with this trait, you can’t cast that it with this trait again until you finish a Long Rest. you can cast the Spell using any Spell Slots you have of the appropriate level. Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma is your spellcasting ability for the Spells you cast with this trait (choose the ability when you select the species).

Spark of Individuality: You have Advantage on saving throws you make to avoid or end the Charmed Condition on yourself.

 

[Minigiant]

And therein is my problem. What would it mean to have powers of the upper planes to draw on if you weren't good? And how would those powers be good if the one drawing on them wasn't?

They are not good.

They drawn on the Upper Planes. The planes of the Divine. The good, neutral, and evil gods.

Tieflings are linked to the lower planes. The Anti-divine. The fiendish or undead beings who go against the will of the gods.

And if drawing on the powers of the upper planes is neither good nor evil, then why would we call them good?

They aren't good.
That's the part missed. In 4e and continued in5e, the cosmos is not simply split between good and evil.

There are the gods and their allies vs the enemies of the gods.
The Feywild vs the Shadowfell.
The Astral vs the Elemental

And Law and Chaos has changed as well.

 

[Corinnguard]

4e DnD.

So something more like the Astral Sea and it's Astral Dominions? But weren't the latter just as beholden to D&D's alignment system? You still had 'Good' planes and 'Evil' planes floating about the Astral Sea. They just weren't tethered together like they were in the Great Wheel cosmology.

 

[Celebrim]

This is exactly how alignment worked before D&D got drunk and weird.

Well, that would have to be how it worked in OD&D, because it certainly didn't work that way in AD&D.

 

[Celebrim]

They aren't good.
That's the part missed. In 4e and continued in 5e, the cosmos is not simply split between good and evil.

There are the gods and their allies vs the enemies of the gods.
The Feywild vs the Shadowfell.
The Astral vs the Elemental

And Law and Chaos has changed as well.

Well, now it's my turn I guess to be such an old grognard that I think D&D has gotten drunk and weird. And additionally, "There are the gods and their allies vs the enemies of the gods." is just flat out dumb, and I don't think you could make that coherent with D&D's usual polytheistic constructs and half a dozen of D&D's other assumptions.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The Greek Pantheon and the Titans would like a word.

 

[Corinnguard]

The Greek Pantheon and the Titans would like a word.

So would every other pantheon in D&D, take a number.

 

[Celebrim]

So something more like the Astral Sea and it's Astral Dominions? But weren't the latter just as beholden to D&D's alignment system? You still had 'Good' planes and 'Evil' planes floating about the Astral Sea. They just weren't tethered together like they were in the Great Wheel cosmology.

That's more or less how things work in my variation of the great wheel cosmology, although things out at the end of the Astral Sea are literally incarnated ideas in my game. So a fiend is literally an incarnated evil spirit, usually of some sub-manifestation of evil (such as a gluttony spirit or a hatred spirit what have you). Spirits are sort of a big deal in my game, as it is heavily animistic. Clouds move because they have animating spirits. Rocks are hard because it's the nature of the spirit they contain to be stubborn. Love an object long and passionately enough and it will manifest a spirit, that sort of thing.