D&D (2024) Lawful, Chaotic, and Neutral touched species.

[Minigiant]

Well, now it's my turn I guess to be such an old grognard that I think D&D has gotten drunk and weird. And additionally, "There are the gods and their allies vs the enemies of the gods." is just flat out dumb, and I don't think you could make that coherent with D&D's usual polytheistic constructs and half a dozen of D&D's other assumptions.

The Greek Pantheon and the Titans would like a word.

That's basically it.

4e's Dawn War is just the Titanomachy and Aesir-Giants war without them being related. People actually liked it and DMs released that it was easier to make sense of.

New gods banish or kill old gods. Newer beings like fiends fight to replace gods or tear down the system.

 

[Celebrim]

The Greek Pantheon and the Titans would like a word.

The Greeks notably didn't think the gods were Good and certainly didn't have the notions of good the prevail in D&D cosmology. There would be no room for angels or demons per se, just gods of various sizes with authority over various things or embodying various things - nymphs, dryads, and the like. Hades for example isn't Evil, and if you are going for verisimilitude to the imagined Greek world, he certainly doesn't take on Satanic overtones the way he does in for example the Disney cartoon Heracles. Zeus isn't the embodiment of goodness, and he basically rules by might makes right. Really worth reading Plato's dialogues here to see how very different the world is if we are making it Greek, and it would certainly have no room for Aasimaar or Tieflings.

 

[Corinnguard]

So a fiend is literally an incarnated evil spirit, usually of some sub-manifestation of evil (such as a gluttony spirit or a hatred spirit what have you).

Hmm...this reminded me of how certain kinds of demons in PF1 came to be.

Take the Glabrezu in PF1: These treacherous demons form from the souls of the treasonous, the false, and the subversive—souls of mortals who, in life, bore false witness or used treachery and deceit to ruin the lives of others.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The Greeks notably didn't think the Gods were Good

So the Greeks were smarter than people in D&D land and didn't buy the grift.

 

[Celebrim]

So the Greeks were smarter than people in D&D land and didn't buy the grift.

Sounds like an opinion that goes well outside the bounds of gaming.

 

[Minigiant]

The Greeks notably didn't think the Gods were Good and certainly didn't have the notions of good the prevail in D&D cosmology. There would be no room for angels or demons per se, just gods of various sizes with authority over various things or embodying various things - nymphs, dryads, and the like. Hades for example isn't Evil, and if you are going for verisimilitude to the imagined Greek world, he certainly doesn't take on Satanic overtones the way he does in for example the Disney cartoon Heracles. Zeus isn't the embodiment of goodness, and he basically rules by might makes right. Really worth reading Plato's dialogues here to see how very different the world is if we are making it Greek, and it would certainly have no room for Aasimaar or Tieflings.

Modern D&D doesn't see the Gods as good either. Just Divine. Angels follow the divine, good or bad.

Not to have on old D&D but one of the issues with old D&D is authors kept creating more and more deities and muddled up the difference between gods and fiends by flooding the lower planes with evil gods, demon princes, and arch devils of the same aspects. IT got to the point were fans could not tell the lore difference between a cleric and a warlock.

The best things that happened to D&D cosmology are
4e firmly separating the Divine, the once Divine, the part Divine and the Not-Divine.
5e mostly kicking the evil gods out the lower planes to make them truly not-divine hellscapes.

The same should be done for truly lawful or chaotic planes. Planes infused with raw order, groupthink, individuality, or disorder.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Sounds like an opinion that goes well outside the bounds of gaming.

No, it's an opinion based on an elf god that screws with his lovers and maims his rival, a gnome god that continually torments his rival and calls himself clever, etc, etc.

 

[Scribe]

Modern D&D doesn't see the Gods as good either. Just Divine. Angels follow the divine, good or bad.

I must have missed this memo. Where was this stated.

 

[Minigiant]

I must have missed this memo. Where was this stated.

fallen angels

 

[Scribe]

fallen angels

What of them? That doesnt say anything about a God being Good or Evil.