D&D (2024) Lawful, Chaotic, and Neutral touched species.

[Minigiant]

What of them? That doesnt say anything about a God being Good or Evil.

Gruumsh is a god and Evil. Same with Maglubiyet.

 

[Scribe]

Gruumsh is a god and Evil. Same with Maglubiyet.

Yes....I'm not following your thought line here. Both live in Acheron or did, no?

 

[Minigiant]

Yes....I'm not following your thought line here. Both live in Acheron or did, no?

Yes, my pont is 4e and 5e shortened the list of evil gods so the lower planes aren't flooded with them.
The evil gods are in the Upper Planes because they aren't good. It's because they are either banished, imprisoned, or left.

The Upper Planes aren't good because its inherently good. It's because the good gods are the only ones still there.

 

[Scribe]

Yes, my pont is 4e and 5e shortened the list of evil gods so the lower planes aren't flooded with them.
The evil gods are in the Upper Planes because they aren't good. It's because they are either banished, imprisoned, or left.

The Upper Planes aren't good because its inherently good. It's because the good gods are the only ones still there.

....

My hope for the last several years, is that 5e Planescape would come out and clarify some of this. It seems to be that you saying the upper planes, that we would associate with the LG to CG spectrum are not actually 'Good' its just where the 'Good' but not Good (as cosmic force) entities are, and the planes themselves are not Good.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but it sure doesnt mesh with my outlook on the planes.

 

[Minigiant]

....

My hope for the last several years, is that 5e Planescape would come out and clarify some of this. It seems to be that you saying the upper planes, that we would associate with the LG to CG spectrum are not actually 'Good' its just where the 'Good' but not Good (as cosmic force) entities are, and the planes themselves are not Good.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but it sure doesnt mesh with my outlook on the planes.

I am not saying the good planes aren't good.

I am saying the evil dieties still emit the energies of the Upper Planes because they are divine.

 

[Scribe]

I am not saying the good planes aren't good.

I am saying the evil dieties still emit the energies of the Upper Planes because they are divine.

Ah OK, so in your view, and it could be 100% supported by 5e I dont know, its the Divinity that comes from the Upper Planes, not Law/Chaos/Good/Evil.

Not a position I hold in my view, but I think I get you.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So something more like the Astral Sea and it's Astral Dominions? But weren't the latter just as beholden to D&D's alignment system? You still had 'Good' planes and 'Evil' planes floating about the Astral Sea. They just weren't tethered together like they were in the Great Wheel cosmology.

They weren’t planes, and they weren’t in a grid.
Also, they were the Dominion of a God and their exarchs and other servants, not a dominion of an alignment. Pelor’s Dominion existed because He willed it so, not because the cosmos demanded a Lawful Good Dominion exist there.

That's basically it.

4e's Dawn War is just the Titanomachy and Aesir-Giants war without them being related. People actually liked it and DMs released that it was easier to make sense of.

New gods banish or kill old gods. Newer beings like fiends fight to replace gods or tear down the system.

Exactly.

 

[Corinnguard]

They weren’t planes, and they weren’t in a grid.
Also, they were the Dominion of a God and their exarchs and other servants, not a dominion of an alignment. Pelor’s Dominion existed because He willed it so, not because the cosmos demanded a Lawful Good Dominion exist there.

An Astral Dominion is still very much a plane.

From the Forgotten Realms Wiki: Astral dominions, sometimes simply called dominions or more archaically the Outer Planes, were distinct planes connected by the Astral Sea which were inhabited and maintained often, but not always, by one or more gods. In many ways an astral dominion was a plane in and of itself, and sometimes contained its own demiplanes.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

An Astral Dominion is still very much a plane.

From the Forgotten Realms Wiki: Astral dominions, sometimes simply called dominions or more archaically the Outer Planes, were distinct planes connected by the Astral Sea which were inhabited and maintained often, but not always, by one or more gods. In many ways an astral dominion was a plane in and of itself, and sometimes contained its own demiplanes.

You know damn well they aren’t the same thing as the Upper Planes of the Great Wheel. If pedantry is all you’re going to bring to a discussion, please let me know so I know to walk away.

At least have the couth to engage with some part of the rest of the post in your pointlessly pedantic reply.

 

[CreamCloud0]

And therein is my problem. What would it mean to have powers of the upper planes to draw on if you weren't good? And how would those powers be good if the one drawing on them wasn't? Why would heaven as it were be in opposition to itself? And if the powers of the upper planes were good, wouldn't drawing on them be good as well? And if drawing on the powers of the upper planes is neither good nor evil, then why would we call them good?

IMO, just because someone has connection to the energies of a certain plane it wouldn't mean that inherently determines anything about their character, i'd view it comparable to saying like, 'you have an inherent connection to the energies of transmutation' or illusion, or necromancy, the energy holds a certain shape and it's effects reflect that shape, the entities who inhabit the planes are formed and molded by their respective energies but their decendants are not shaped by it in the same way even if they retain a connection to those forces.

im not sure if positive and negative energy is the same as good and evil energy is the same as radiant and necrotic but i feel like good energy channeled should cause effects in line with the principles of good: healing, protection and restoration, regardless of who and of what alignment the people who channel it is, (and evil would have spells that harm and exploit others, law spells would force order like geas or hold person and so on...)

i get that devils and demons are typically based on fire but i kinda wish tiefling's default damage was necrotic to more directly tie their ancestry to the lower planes.