D&D General Lethality, AD&D, and 5e: Looking Back at the Deadliest Edition

[nevin]

You're assuming the PCs find all that magic. IME in a typical module they generally tend to find between 1/2 and 3/4 of it, which takes care of your 1/3 reduction right there.

1/3 of the keep on the borderlands magic items will equip 2 parties.

 

[nevin]

but my point was at no point early in game history was there ever an expectation of low magic

 

[Voadam]

Reincarnate gets around system shock in 1e, and MUs can cast it. It even works on elves and half orcs.

 

[Lanefan]

Just to briefly interject- it wasn't just fireballs. It could be dragonbreath.

OR JUST FALLING. OR GETTING HIT BY AN OGRE.

The item saving throw table applied to acid, crushing blows, normal blows, disintegrate, falling, fireballs, magical fire, normal fire, frost, lightning, and electricity.

Falling was a killer of potions, especially because you had a 1 point penalty for each 5' after the initial 5' of falling. So a fall of 35' (for example) would give your items a -6 on saves, and potions would save on a 13 to begin with- meaning your potions in vials would need a 19 or higher, each, to survive the fall.

Biggest killer of potions - and scrolls, for that matter - in my games has always been Dispel Magic; sometimes self-inflicted, sometimes cast by the enemy (or a trap).

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah. Someone sits down at the table with any character that has those kinds of stats we’d laugh and tell them to roll again at the table with everyone watching.

There were plenty of cases back in the day where you were seeing mid level characters you'd never encountered before, so it wasn't like these were new ground-up characters. And as noted, some generation methods could be very generous.

 

[Lanefan]

What are proficiencies. In 1e a fighter could pick up any weapon and use it with full effect. You are confusing 2e with 1e sir. He could also wear any armor.

Any armour, yes.

Any weapon, no. A Fighter started proficient in four weapons and gained another every three levels (so at 4th, 7th, etc.). Use of a non-proficient weapon carried a -2 to-hit penalty.

It wasn't until 3e that a) weapons got sorted into just a few broad categories - simple, martial, etc. - and b) a Fighter could pick up pretty much anything and use it without penalty.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Any armour, yes.

Any weapon, no. A Fighter started proficient in four weapons and gained another every three levels (so at 4th, 7th, etc.). Use of a non-proficient weapon carried a -2 to-hit penalty.

It wasn't until 3e that a) weapons got sorted into just a few broad categories - simple, martial, etc. - and b) a Fighter could pick up pretty much anything and use it without penalty

OD&D. Fighters could use anything.

 

[Lanefan]

Raise dead has always been part of the game. So after a certain point dying doesn't pack any punch at all in the standard game as long as you can recover the body.

Well, aside from the loss of a Con point each time, which eventually becomes a real problem...

 

[Lanefan]

OD&D. Fighters could use anything.

Perhaps, but the poster I was replying to specifically made this claim for 1e, which is false.

 

[overgeeked]

1/3 of the keep on the borderlands magic items will equip 2 parties.

Only if you assume magic items are indestructible, which they are not.