D&D General Lethality, AD&D, and 5e: Looking Back at the Deadliest Edition

[Hussar]

Yeah. Someone sits down at the table with any character that has those kinds of stats we’d laugh and tell them to roll again at the table with everyone watching.

Note. I never said this.

Are you serious that you never had a fighter with a 14 or 15 Dex? Because that’s all you needed for AC bonuses.

Look I get that everyone seemed to play with characters whose highest stat was 12, but that’s not us. Hell look at the pre-gens in the modules. Those kinds of stats were common as dirt.

I mean really, a fighter with 17,10,9,15,16,12 for stats would raise eyebrows?

 

[Hussar]

I have to ask because it was repeated twice.

You forced item saves for being hit by an ogre? Seriously?

 

[Thomas Shey]

There was also no assumption of high magic. It was left to the referee. Just because treasure is listed in a module does not mean the referee has to keep it there. Monty Haul referees were called out as bad back in the day. Don’t assume all AD&D characters were festooned with magic items.

I think this at least requires ignoring the extent treasure tables to make this argument. If that doesn't set expectations, what does?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Note. I never said this.

Are you serious that you never had a fighter with a 14 or 15 Dex? Because that’s all you needed for AC bonuses.

Look I get that everyone seemed to play with characters whose highest stat was 12, but that’s not us. Hell look at the pre-gens in the modules. Those kinds of stats were common as dirt.

I mean really, a fighter with 17,10,9,15,16,12 for stats would raise eyebrows?

Probably in the old, old 3D6 days. I can't see why it would after 4D6-toss-lowest..

 

[nevin]

Note. I never said this.

Are you serious that you never had a fighter with a 14 or 15 Dex? Because that’s all you needed for AC bonuses.

Look I get that everyone seemed to play with characters whose highest stat was 12, but that’s not us. Hell look at the pre-gens in the modules. Those kinds of stats were common as dirt.

I mean really, a fighter with 17,10,9,15,16,12 for stats would raise eyebrows?

at some tables it would. Remember a lot of tables started with 3d6, some even with 3d6 in order. When I say I played far more rogues than I ever wanted in the early days I do not exagerate. But to be fair not all tables ran that way. And a lot of the ones that did would work in stat boosting items or even magical boons that just boosted your stats. Find the right wizard , cleric , fey lord or dragon and anything might be possible.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Raise dead has always been part of the game. So after a certain point dying doesn't pack any punch at all in the standard game as long as you can recover the body.

Provided you're high enough level and have the resources, yes.

 

[nevin]

I have to ask because it was repeated twice.

You forced item saves for being hit by an ogre? Seriously?

yeah I want to know that one.

Biggest killer of potions - and scrolls, for that matter - in my games has always been Dispel Magic; sometimes self-inflicted, sometimes cast by the enemy (or a trap).

Hit by an ogre?????? Pretty sure that's not in the rules unless you're talking magical furniture or the ogre has some special magic item. That's a table that wouldn't have kept players long in my circles.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I get that everyone seemed to play with characters whose highest stat was 12, but that’s not us. Hell look at the pre-gens in the modules. Those kinds of stats were common as dirt.

I mean really, a fighter with 17,10,9,15,16,12 for stats would raise eyebrows?

I always like to point people to the 1e AD&D PHB which says very clearly that a PC should have no less than two stats of 15 or higher. People playing 3d6 straight were not playing the way Gygax was directing.

 

[nevin]

I always like to point people to the 1e AD&D PHB which says very clearly that a PC should have no less than two stats of 15 or higher. People playing 3d6 straight were not playing the way Gygax was directing.

my first character was a wizard with a 17 intelligence. He died in 2nd encounter in the dungeon my next character didn't have a stat above 9. hello first rogue.

 

[overgeeked]

yeah I want to know that one.

Hit by an ogre?????? Pretty sure that's not in the rules unless you're talking magical furniture or the ogre has some special magic item. That's a table that wouldn't have kept players long in my circles.

AD&D DMG p80. Item saving throws and damage types:

“2. Blow, Crushing: This assumes that the item is struck by a weighty falling object or a blow from an ogre's or giant's weapon, for example. Another example would be a (ceramic) flask of oil or a (crystal or glass) vial of holy water hurled against a hard surface or dropped from a height. A piece of cloth can be ripped or torn by a crushing blow.”

A crystal or vial has a 2-in-20 chance of surviving. Glass has a 1-in-20.