D&D General Let's Share Our Alternate Lore

[Minigiant]

There is a kingdom ruled by a goblin king.

In this kingdom, the only crimes are "harming a royal", "disobeying a direct order of the king or queen" and "tax evasion".

You can steal, lie, and murder all you want.

Your tax rate is determined by how much it costs the goblin king to protect you.

 

[Winterthorn]

In my primary homebrew world of Nythea, the deities have done some tampering to invoke some change:
Orcs are CG, but they are still uncivlized boors; Drow are now LE and rule an expanding surface empire*, while surface elves are dispersed, in hiding, or in asylum in non-elven realms; and the halflings of Nythea have finally dispensed with those silly bucolic borrows and have a monarchy, a parliament, a powerful navy, and secret agents trying to do good in the world.
Additionally, the Nythean deites punished human ancestors so today humans born on Nythea cannot be sorcerers, they also rescued the last gnolls from doom to convert them into good-aligned Khenra (a race from MTG), and chromatic and metallic dragons are gone - only dragonborn and the more obscure dragonkind remain.
And the divine invoked Edict of Forbiddance blocks interlopers from other planes, trapping some immortals on Nythea, and blocking others from trespassing. (There's a heck of a lot more going on with tweaks and twists on lore, but the above is just a wee teaser.)
*please note I came up with this idea years before the surface Drow of Wildemount were published, I had only noticed CR last year as I do not watch podcasts of games. My surface Drow revolted against Lolth at the urging of devilish agents of Asmodeus. A consequence of that never ending Blood War. So their culture and modus operandi is different

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

In my multiverse I allow the time spheres, a concept from 2nd Ed Chronomancers. They work as uchronies or parallel worlds, for example an alternative future where Sylvara and Gilnathas, two characters of Dragonlance, are married and with silver half-dragon children. Sometimes when chronomancers, chrononauts/time-travelers alter the past too much, the space-time continity isn't rewritten totally but it may become something like an akasha realm, a demiplane created by the collective memory by the sentient creatures, or a reality burble within the dream plane. But some alternative timelines can be "tainted", not really erasured but becomes "nightmare domains", something close to the regions of the demiplane of dread, with planar gates to the far realm, and being visited, or invaded, by lovecratians or infernal alien threats.

There is a "multiverse" war between two time spheres, one is the Krynn where Raitslin become a god, and the other where the Krynn pantheon lost their power stealen by the king-priest. Other realm is whee lord Soth saved the day and got his redemption.

 

[Fanaelialae]

long and boring discussion to follow (well not boring to me but):

I would say nether case requires any 'spooky' entities; posit a force M (=magic). M is integral in producing effect E (causing THIS entity to have THOSE sorcerer powers) in condition C (spark)... Now, we can go about maybe determining MORE general and more interesting dynamical features of M in other conditions and in relation with other things; and mamybe even conctruct a more general (or fine-grained or specific or more robust) language used to explain more fundamentally why M does E in C. And we are on our way to a science...

Concerning local variaition in the perceptible phenomenon: it seemingly occurs; This region of water will be this dense at these temps/pressures; just becasue a volume of water is liguid given conditions C doesnt mean the laws of nature have suddenly STOPPED WORKING (or that there is NOT A MORE GENERAL THEORY THAT EXPLAINS THIS PHENOMENON AND THAT IS constructed to be general and universally applicable and necessarily 'active' or 'operative')!

similarly, just because some regions of space or of the plenum or Aether (or whatever) have 'no magic' whatever that means (or that region of water has no frozenness, whatever that means) doesnt mean the laws of magic are not a (maybe merely proper) subset of the laws of nature(=physics)... It coud be that those magicky tendrils are such that under conditions C they have effect N (null magic); normally water provides sustenance, but if cyanid is added then well... I imagine we can come up with an indefinitely many relevantly analagous (yet maybe appropriately dfferent) cases attempting o illustrate the following: Regions of Null magic does not indicate that the laws of magic are not a subset of the laws of nature!

DM fiat aside This discussion is already in a weird conceptual space. For
(i) we are trying to figure out the true metaphysics of worlds we create
(ii)but from theperspective of thinkers FROM THOSE WORLDS, what would be reasonable for THEM to think not for US TO STIPLUATE;
(iii) yet OUR EVIDENCE consists of CREATE/stipulated RULES;
What metaphysic IS AT LEAST CONSISTENT WITH RAW? (or RAI; odd query really) is my guiding quetion in this context.. I maintain that a physicalism is consistent with RAW (that is a claim that many would deny; as many think souls are both (i) assumed to exist and (ii) cannot be given a coherent physical interpretation...

Even despite the evidece(astral projections divine interventions) I think a philosopher of Greyhawk could maintain a reasonable phyiscalism (think planescape; where any of the factions outright crazy or flippant n the face of the PERCEIVED evidence; i.e. were any being bad empirical researchers? I say no[t necessarily]...

In short it could be that null magic regions is just how the laws of physics work; further, we can point to numerous cases IN THE REAL WORLD, where local variation is accepted as not problematic for theories that maintain that the laws of nature are universal and generally applicable....

I imagine most havent made it this far... wanting to play some DnD

Yeah, you can certainly make magic a branch of science. Although my question to that would be: at that point, what makes it magic?

That's my biggest issue with magic as science. IMO, magic should always be at least a little beyond mortal comprehension to distinguish it as such. I think that even if magic can be formalized and categorized, the deeper whys for how it works should be elusive. Even going so far as to causing those who do delve too deeply and learn the why to lose their humanity in the process.

Mind you, I like formalized, coherent magic systems. Brandon Sanderson is one of my favorite authors, and he writes magic systems that are well explained because he believes that your ability to satisfyingly solve problems in a story using magic is directly proportional to how well that magic is understood by the reader. However, while there are a lot of little hints and clues throughout his novels as to why magic works, he never explains it. It remains somewhat shrouded and mysterious, which I think is important.

It's one thing for magic as a force to not function in an area (because the magic field is weak there or whatever). Quite another for it to take the day off. Consider this - there are four fundamental forces in our universe: gravity, electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force. If any of those forces took the day off it would be the end of all life. Without gravity our solar system would fly apart. Matter can't really exist without electromagnetism and the strong nuclear force. Without the weak nuclear force the stars (including our sun) shut down.

So, at least to me, if magic is the 5th force then it taking the day off ought to have greater consequences than a mere power outage. Don't get me wrong, they're not fundamental forces because their stopping would end all life. Rather, all life is dependent on them because they are fundamental forces of the universe. Life evolved with them in place. In areas where that force is subdued life might evolve without a need for it, but I would expect elsewhere for it to be rather intrinsic. Otherwise it's a bit of a vestigial force, if it is only of real consequence to mages and supernatural creatures.

For example, maybe without magic the world is purely physical. Souls are dependent on the 5th force and cease to be/function without it. Life wouldn't cease without magic, in that scenario, but it would change quite drastically. Maybe this is reflected by the good/evil alignment axis being suppressed and going with just the old school law/chaos axis. That's just spitballing though.

My point being that I think that if you make magic a fundamental force, you need to find a way to make it intrinsic to that world. It can't just be important for mages and the like - it should be fundamental to everyone (everyone whose ancestors didn't evolve in a null-magic zone at any rate). If the nature of magic is vague (whether or not its application is formulaic and predictable) then it doesn't need to be fundamental.

 

[Lanefan]

It's one thing for magic as a force to not function in an area (because the magic field is weak there or whatever). Quite another for it to take the day off. Consider this - there are four fundamental forces in our universe: gravity, electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force. If any of those forces took the day off it would be the end of all life. Without gravity our solar system would fly apart. Matter can't really exist without electromagnetism and the strong nuclear force. Without the weak nuclear force the stars (including our sun) shut down.

And without magic you get the world we're sitting on right now.

Magic, unlike the other four, can take the day off and the world won't end. That said, it won't be pretty...

For example, maybe without magic the world is purely physical. Souls are dependent on the 5th force and cease to be/function without it. Life wouldn't cease without magic, in that scenario, but it would change quite drastically. Maybe this is reflected by the good/evil alignment axis being suppressed and going with just the old school law/chaos axis. That's just spitballing though.

Wouldn't have anything to do with alignments, but magic ceasing to exist would before long kill off all life that requires magic to live, leaving you with flora and fauna looking very much like that on [pick-your-favourite-era] Earth or something similar. Also all magical effects would go away, producing some rather massive upheavals in pretty much any surviving society of sentients.

I had to think this all through ages ago; my first campaign (the one I mentioned upthread, with destabilizing magic) ended when magic was removed from that world entirely, for its own good.

To your point about magic being a 'vestigial' force compared to the others, I can live with that. It's not as essential a universal building block as the other four, it's more like an added nicety that some places have and others don't.

 

[Weiley31]

Well in my games, Tabaxi aren't JUST people sized cats, but instead they can also LITERALLY look like small sized housecats and all. Walking around on all fours with all the cattitude of cats. Tabaxi just seems to be the name they all agree upon as a Parliament. The Sorceresrs of Tabaxi are also known as Grimalkins.

The Druidic faith of the Old Ways revere two aspects of Nature: Mother Gaia and Sister Luna. Of course Mother Gaia encompasses nature while Sister Luna governs/takes in the Lycanthropes as her own children. Father Sky existed at one point but is no longer "around" or seen as important as Gaia or Luna.

When a Druid undertakes the rite to determine which Circle they will join, they go into a deep slumber and dream. Within this "dream" they find themselves within a vision where they are in total blackness. The only light seems to come from either the Moon with a Maiden stretching her hand out to grab, or the sunlight from a small patch of land. Taking the Maiden's hand appoints the Druid as a member of The Circle of Moon while attuning to the patch of land commits a Druid to the Circle of Land.

A Druid can can go back and forth between the two before making a choice. Sometimes the Druid can choose to continue going deeper into this dream like state, perhaps unlocking/finding rarer Circles. Sometimes, unique manifestations may occur. Like suppose if the trees of the land patch suddenly caught on fire, and the Druid chose to "confront" the blaze within instead of running towards the Moon....

Devils are still refered to as Baatezu and demons T'anari in 5E. Driders use their 4E lore info. PC Gnolls use Eberron/4E Lore while evil Gnolls use 5E lore. The Gloaming Courts is another name for the Unseelie Courts and Summer Courts for the Seelie as well.

Orcus, for whatever the reason, talks with a Monster/distorted version of a Boston/Mafioso style accent. Or the voice of the Baby from Who Framed Roger Rabbit. And calls anything/anybody he DOESN'T like or begrudgingly a "Schlep Head" which is some archaic demon term that is the equivalent of being called a dick head.

Jubilex enjoys tormenting Zuggtmoy for the lulz more and somewhat considers her more as a "roommate" while taking over half of her own layer. Basically, think Mr. Wilson and Dennis the Menace. Needless to say, Zuggtmoy ain't happy bout it all but she can't do jack after that whole Temple of Elemental Evil stint she went through. And if she can't figure out what to do bout it, she won't have a layer to call her own.

Archons still exist. Negative level effects are treated as Exhaustion.

The Raven Queen's station of covering death is composed of her, Myrkul, and Jergal. Jergal is seen as the older/veteran book keeper and The Raven Queen views Myrkul as DAT one co-worker you can't stand at your job and dislikes the whole Dead Three to begin with. Kelevmor is The Raven Queen's direct Supervisor/Store Manager.

 

[Fanaelialae]

And without magic you get the world we're sitting on right now.

Magic, unlike the other four, can take the day off and the world won't end. That said, it won't be pretty...

Wouldn't have anything to do with alignments, but magic ceasing to exist would before long kill off all life that requires magic to live, leaving you with flora and fauna looking very much like that on [pick-your-favourite-era] Earth or something similar. Also all magical effects would go away, producing some rather massive upheavals in pretty much any surviving society of sentients.

I had to think this all through ages ago; my first campaign (the one I mentioned upthread, with destabilizing magic) ended when magic was removed from that world entirely, for its own good.

To your point about magic being a 'vestigial' force compared to the others, I can live with that. It's not as essential a universal building block as the other four, it's more like an added nicety that some places have and others don't.

Obviously, you're free to do as you wish, but I find that unsatisfying.

I'm of the opinion that if you have non-supernatural beings (humans or whatnot) in a universe where magic is a fundamental force, then their evolution should account for that force or there should be an explanation for why that isn't the case (such as all humans arrived from a world in a dead magic zone).

Of course, it's a magical world, so maybe there is no evolution. Maybe humans were created. But then why didn't their creators take the 5th force into consideration? They gave them bodies strong enough to function under the pull of gravity. They gave them nervous systems and musculature that capable of leveraging electromagnetism. Having magical abilities is a significant advantage, so why not give them the capacity to leverage that force in some innate manner?

I think in a universe where magic is the 5th fundamental force, you really need to think through all of the implications it means for that universe and the inhabitants thereof. It is a fundamental force. It shouldn't just be tacked on as an afterthought to justify the existence of magic.

In fairness though, there was a time when I was a young man that I intended to be a physicist. Though I ended up going a different route (computer science) I still have a great interest in and fondness of physics. So it could be that I'm overthinking things.

 

[Lanefan]

Obviously, you're free to do as you wish, but I find that unsatisfying.

I'm of the opinion that if you have non-supernatural beings (humans or whatnot) in a universe where magic is a fundamental force, then their evolution should account for that force or there should be an explanation for why that isn't the case (such as all humans arrived from a world in a dead magic zone).

Life would have evolved on different worlds to suit those worlds, and then intermingled via some combination of planeshifts and interstellar space travel - or somehting like that.

Of course, it's a magical world, so maybe there is no evolution. Maybe humans were created. But then why didn't their creators take the 5th force into consideration? They gave them bodies strong enough to function under the pull of gravity. They gave them nervous systems and musculature that capable of leveraging electromagnetism. Having magical abilities is a significant advantage, so why not give them the capacity to leverage that force in some innate manner?

I think in a universe where magic is the 5th fundamental force, you really need to think through all of the implications it means for that universe and the inhabitants thereof. It is a fundamental force. It shouldn't just be tacked on as an afterthought to justify the existence of magic.

In fairness though, there was a time when I was a young man that I intended to be a physicist. Though I ended up going a different route (computer science) I still have a great interest in and fondness of physics. So it could be that I'm overthinking things.

Perhaps.

I just want some simple underlying explanation for magic to exist some (or most) places but not others. This works, or close enough for me, which means (best of all!) I don't have to think about it much more.

 

[Inanity]

I just want some simple underlying explanation for magic to exist some (or most) places but not others. This works, or close enough for me, which means (best of all!) I don't have to think about it much more.

I ran a setting where planets and stars were assumed to populate the prime material plane. I thought it was odd that spellcasters could theoretically point to a distance star and teleport there (I was using 3.5e ruleset). Yes it would be dangerous (find yourself in dead space or in a star etc.) but possible and I didnt really like that.

So, I came up with the idea that (at leat in the material plane) magic is more dense (or more prevalent) the more mass there was in a region (so less mass less magic to the point that the 'vacuum' of space (mostly inhabitted only by photons) would be a null magic field (I then gave some other cosmology to explain other planar magic etc; didnt think about just still now how certain light magic would be effected if at all.);

this gave me a reason to say that dead space equals a null magic zone... and goodluck teleporting INTO a sun itself (the only thing you could really see from the planet your on). Yes high level spellcsters have just teleported into oblivion (mostly never to return) but in general you simply CANT teleport into space (since your TARGET DESTINATION would be a null magic field; or else a star and that would lead to near instant death to all but the most powerful)..

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Obviously, you're free to do as you wish, but I find that unsatisfying.

I'm of the opinion that if you have non-supernatural beings (humans or whatnot) in a universe where magic is a fundamental force, then their evolution should account for that force or there should be an explanation for why that isn't the case (such as all humans arrived from a world in a dead magic zone).

Of course, it's a magical world, so maybe there is no evolution. Maybe humans were created. But then why didn't their creators take the 5th force into consideration? They gave them bodies strong enough to function under the pull of gravity. They gave them nervous systems and musculature that capable of leveraging electromagnetism. Having magical abilities is a significant advantage, so why not give them the capacity to leverage that force in some innate manner?

I think in a universe where magic is the 5th fundamental force, you really need to think through all of the implications it means for that universe and the inhabitants thereof. It is a fundamental force. It shouldn't just be tacked on as an afterthought to justify the existence of magic.

In fairness though, there was a time when I was a young man that I intended to be a physicist. Though I ended up going a different route (computer science) I still have a great interest in and fondness of physics. So it could be that I'm overthinking things.

Who says magic is the fifth force? Who says there are four other forces? Who says gravity is a force and not, say, a centripetal property shared by the elements of earth and water but not fire and air? Who says a human nervous system works with electromagnetism rather than, say, qi?

I agree that magic should not feel tacked on. But I think that if you maintain all the same real-world assumptions about physics and biology and the other sciences, magic is probably going to feel tacked on no matter how hard you think about it. You have to change your worldview to one where magic is an integral part from the bottom up.

Or... not. Lemme put it this way: I rewatched Toy Story recently. I do not think the story would have been improved by an explanation of how Woody can walk and talk. Sometimes less is more.