Playtest (A5E) Level Up Playtest Document #16: Combat Maneuvers

Welcome to the 16th Level Up playtest document.

Last year we released the first half of the combat maneuvers as part of the fighter class playtest. Now it’s time to show you the revised chapter.

This is a long document with about 170 maneuvers; combat maneuvers occupy the same conceptual space for martial characters that spells do for magical characters (although, of course, they are all non-magical).

We don’t expect you to evaluate every maneuver in this document. Maneuvers are divided into 11 Traditions and we ask that you pick one or more Traditions to focus on and then give us your feedback via the playtest survey.

Level Up Playtest Document #16: Combat Maneuvers — Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

Welcome to the 16th Level Up playtest document. This playtest contains a candidate for the game’s Combat Maneuvers system.

www.levelup5e.com

When you are ready, please fill out the combat maneuvers playtest survey.

Mailchimp Survey

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[Faolyn]

You have identified the precise purpose of playtest documents and surveys. Flag it up on the survey.

I just wish there had been more room in the survey to include these notes...

 

[timespike]

Yes, that's why I'm asking how the maneuvers mesh with the Battlemaster maneuvers.

Ah. In that case: they don't. Battlemaster maneuvers use a completely separate resource from A5e maneuvers. You'd keep track of both pools separately and use the maneuvers from each independently of one another. Same as with any subclass-specific resource pool.

 

[Stalker0]

I just wish there had been more room in the survey to include these notes...

Agreed, it was a really long survey to have such a short comment box. I think its some of the reason people will post detailed comments here, you just can't fit them in the core survey...not even close.

 

[Morrus]

Agreed, it was a really long survey to have such a short comment box. I think its some of the reason people will post detailed comments here, you just can't fit them in the core survey...not even close.

A list of 187 maneuvers, we physically can’t process a thousand essay responses. It’s impossible. It has to be numerical via the checkboxes so we know where to start looking and which ones got flagged up multiple times. The comment box is for more overall stuff not specific maneuvers. So I strongly encourage people to use the survey form and flag up the maneuvers you feel need another look.

 

[Faolyn]

Agreed, it was a really long survey to have such a short comment box. I think its some of the reason people will post detailed comments here, you just can't fit them in the core survey...not even close.

Even resorting to the dreaded text speak didn't give me nearly enough room.

I hope the writing team is reading the comments.

 

[Faolyn]

A list of 187 maneuvers, we physically can’t process a thousand essay responses. It’s impossible. It has to be numerical via the checkboxes so we know where to start looking and which ones got flagged up multiple times. The comment box is for more overall stuff not specific maneuvers. So I strongly encourage people to use the survey form and flag up the maneuvers you feel need another look.

A potential suggestion: if you find that certain maneuvers are getting flagged a lot, maybe have another survey just for those.

 

[tetrasodium]

• sanguine knot, spirited steed, tempered iron, plus tooth & claw here
• Basic Maneuvers, adamant mountain, biting zephyr, & mirror's glint here

Spoiler: Mist & Shade

• Anticipate spell: I'm not sure what this does. Sure the AoO is clear but not so much on the sleight of hand check & if damage is done does it force a concentration check ot something?
• Deceptive stance: I'm not sure what either of those do in a fight
• Painful pickpocket. Not sure what the sleight of hand check does but the name gives a suggestion . This kind of pickpocketing through inventory might work well in video games, but I'm not sure that level of detail is normal so it heavily depends on what else that check allows.
• Perplexing Fury: Being able to impose disadvantage on all of an opponent's attacks till your next turn is a huge boon that can be even greater with some of the mirror's glint type stuff that activates on being missed to setup some very neat synergy
• Agile feint: If you think it has good AC or you absolutely need to hit this is a nice way to burn a bonus action that might otherwise go unused
• Force hesitation: Nifty & a bit mind controlly to a degree, but granting advantage on the save if you used this already in the combat makes this one round thing pretty reasonable
• Mugging hit: again I'm not sure what the slight of hand check does
• Douse: I'm suspecting this moves throw a flask of acid/holy water/etc from action to bonus action? it could make those more interesting combat options.
• Feinting strike: With the various ways of getting expertise dice on a skill like sleight of hand this could be a nice way of making a needed hit a lot more guaranteed.
• Pickpocket: again I'm not sure what the slight of hand check does...
• Blinding Blow stance: even with the 1 point cost to trigger with an attack after your in stance this is incredible considering blinding blow was 3 points & 2 attacks each time.
• Challenge Foe: There will certainly be cases where someone wants to force a specific opponent to attack them & till your next turn isn't so long that it's problematic but 60ft is a bit long for range o this kinda thing. Maybe change that to within it's move speed or within half its move speed?
• Spinning Parry: This one is just neat but again the sleight of hand thing makes me feel like the skills rework has some critical details we are missing.
• Steal Momentum: This do something to impose restrained condition will feel so much better in play than the mirror's glint speed=0 stuff & has the added benefit of not automatically overriding creatures immune to restrain from the creature spell magic item or whatever.
• Armor lock: Jumping steal momentum up from restrained to paralyzed is a massive bump with a bigger cost in terms of exertion & attacks used that I think balance it out.
• Create an opening: reaction to being missed to make an attack that causes your next attack against it to be a crit is a huge boon that will be even bigger if we see weapons more than x2. I think this will be one that makes players feel awesome when it counts.
• Pilfer Object: This should include a line bout dm discretion & maybe be limited by object size. The bbeg isn't going to let you charge up & steal his 2 handed staff used to cast spells with when faced with 4-6 bloodthirsty killers but you might be able to get the bbeg's poison vial or wand before he does the bad thing you want to stop.

Spoiler: Rapid Current

• Charge: This sounds kinda like the biting zephyr quickdraw from the fluff but the mechanics just seem to amount to move an extra 30ft in a line & make a standard melee weapon attack as an action even if you had more than one attack. It should be cleared up & made to reflect it mechanically if the intent is like quickdraw. If the intent is not like quickdraw that attack should probably get some benefit & absolutely should be worded to work with class features like extra attacks
• Eye slash: Much the same kind of awesome as other blind a creature maneuvers but this gets bonus points from my GM side for including the words "that relies on sight" after creature.
• Speed over strength: I just like how this works & feel like it gives the rogue some incentive to not always bonus action disengage. I wonder if changing the you to you or an ally would be justified?
• Swift stance: These are hard to judge the value on but after 5e removed the speed penalties for wearing heavier armors they became less meaningful. Without some close to constant source of speed penalties like from armor I can't see this ever being worth the investment of taking it over almost any other maneuver unless it comes free with a class feature
• Parrying counter: This seems like one of those things I might feel an urge to plonk a cost reduction on a fancy by not quite optimal weapon, but even at 1 point it's still going to be useful occasionally once one' bread & butter maneuvers are accounted for since it gives an attack if it causes a miss.
• Rapid Drink: I've tried doing things like making potions better (ie 2hd+2) & bonus action dependant in o5e but still found players basically never used them because healing word+damage below 0 just goes away being so much more efficient. I think the value to trap ratio on this one will depend on what happens when someone is damaged for an amount greater than their current hp & then hit by healing word as a bonus action without anyone breaking stride. this video gets into the combined problem of unbeatable efficiency nicely.
• Rolling Strike: This one not needing a straight line & not provoking AoOs makes a nice subjective alternative to charge & shows why charge should be better by being better in nearly every way that will regularly matter
• Disarming Counter: I liked this wwhen the dbattering strike close cousin was strength based with a slightly different trigger & think the differences between them setup a nice example of rock paper scissors scary for dex vrs strength types without making a clear winner of either.
• Rapid strike: extra attacks are always nice & this could get extremely vicious with the right weapons/build
• Whirlwind strike: One of the other traditions had a similar but slightly different ability & it's nice to see it spread around a bit for players who feel like this sort of ohcrud button is fitting their character.
• First Blood: this will be a life saver for getting caught while stealthing around as a scout alone, but in melee combat with allies the value of going first is often vastly overstated unless you are some kind of controller type build imo. It looks like rogues & rangers won't get 3rd degree till sometime after level 10 though so I wonder if the maneuver tier might be too high for something that basically amounts to a niche tool for scouting
• Flowing steps: Kind of a neat assortment of things to have advantage against that nicely shows why speed=0 shouldn't be used with maneuvers like warning strike & such when there are conditions that already do that & interact better with other abilities
• Oncoming Storm: This is good but extremely similar to rapid strike, almost too much so. It feels like there should be more differece between the two since they are both in the same tradition
• Whirlpool strike: This is a straight improvement over whirlwind strike & the extrad6 escalation makes it significantly so. I really like this.
• Shifting Currents: I like this so much better than bonus action disengage from cunning action
• Tidal Parry: Most of the really scary melee type monsters are strength based so having a thing to make them take a dex save to miss what would have been a hit is an incredible ace to keep in your pocket as a player & fitting the 5th degree .
• tsunami dash: getting to dash around smacking foes can do wonders against a defensive line with this awesome "I've got this guys" 5th degree maneuver that would make using lots of mooks as a gm something really worth it to the players rather than a slog & that says nothing about the ways doing it could be leveraged to push for surrender or similar.

Spoiler: Razor's Edge

• Dangerous Strikes:crit range bumps are always nice but unlike strike the cracks stance & dispelling strike/explosive stane this is an action not reaction or stance & does nothing but improve crit range. Even as a first degree maneuver it feels like this needs serious improvement.
• Exploit Footing: This seems a little niche just to trigger dex save or prone. The conditions are a bit iffy & at least in o5e being tripped often means standing up without provoking an AoO at a cost of half the movement that probably wasn't going to be used anyway s & there are a lot easier more reliable ways to trip an opponent in other maneuvers. Even at 1 point it might be too high a cost
• Iron Will: This kind of save against fear with advantage is great given how debilitating it is so it's nice to see it in another tradition
• Perceptive stance: I'm not sure if hidden/invis opponents are common enough to justify this stance, it seems a bit like a solution looking for a problem unless there are other changes intended that make it better.
• Practiced roll: Being able to move around in combat is nice enough that people used to put points into acrobatics just do do that with tumble, the real value here will probably depend most on how mych the AoO enabled tactical grid component of combat is improved from o5e's virtual removal of it.
• Twist the blade: Having a crit range bump as a reaction is a nice option even if it doesn't stretch as far as the stack down too 17-20 if multiple sources but having it use a completely different system that doesn't mesh well with all of the others so far is something I'm bot sure is worth it. This should be worded so it works better with things like dangerous strikes, perfect edge stance, strike the cracks & so on.
• Use the pain: Getting crit is almost never a good thing but a maneuver that lets you make sure it hurts the attacker back is a nice tool in the toolbox
• Drive back: This seems like a pretty expensive shove variant.
• Instinctive counterattack: attack as a reaction is great & opens a lot of really interesting build options for rogues who could use it for multiple sneak attacks even with the cost
• Mind over body: DR effects are great, but this one doesn't specify if it triggers before or after rage cuts damage in half & if it can reduce damage to zero.
• Dashing razor: Feels kinda middle of the road not really great or bad but could be a fun tool in the toolbox for players
• Focus Foe: This is great & given the duration is sure to be a favorite for many builds even with the cost.
• Perfect edge stance: amazing crit fisher stance
• Sharpened awareness: neat little reaction to maybe avoid getting hit & get some benefit if you succeed.
• Death blow: I started out a bit uncertain about how grouping 3 attacks into one crit would pass the basic cursory math test when crits are usually just double damage but think that comining the crit range enhancing stuff with the if crit target drops to zerohp makes it a nice tough choice with no clear great/bad ranking right where it should be for a 5th degree maneuuver
• Focused edge: Interesting use of concentration mechanic but +1d8 per point on one attack feels like a pretty bad return given the risk of losing concentration. It should probably be improved to one of multiple attacks, more dice, no concentration or some combo of the three.
• Heightened concentration: either great or nothing useful entirely based on build so not much to say

Having done this for all quite a few traditions there was one thing I found myself wishing for in the layout. Fate & pf2 both have symbols next to certain kinds of things & many of these fall into [does something to improve your attack(s)], [does something to debuff an opponent], [does something to the movement of an opponent or moves them], & maybe one or two others like [does something to make one or more of your allies awesome]. A simple icon right inline with the maneuver name could help with identifying & remembering maneuvers you aren't personally able to use as a player & could help a GM quickly sort them into mental boxes without a lot of extra overhead

 

[Faolyn]

Painful pickpocket. Not sure what the sleight of hand check does but the name gives a suggestion . This kind of pickpocketing through inventory might work well in video games, but I'm not sure that level of detail is normal so it heavily depends on what else that check allows.

I had the same question with this and with the other, similar maneuvers. I'm guessing it just lets you pick someone's pocket (or plant something on a person) in combat, but I'm not entirely sure if that's really useful. Unless you're against someone you know you can't defeat, that you know will try to escape, or that you're planning on letting escape, it's likely to be easier to just kill the foe or knock it out, then loot the body like a good PC.

 

[Faolyn]

So what interesting combos have people come up with? I'm not great at combos myself, but was immediately amused by Stand Tall plus Hurl Ally, which would allow you to toss an ally the same size as yourself.

 

[Faolyn]

Is it too late to ask for more maneuvers for dual-weapon fighting and for shield bashes?

 

[Stalker0]

Is it too late to ask for more maneuvers for dual-weapon fighting and for shield bashes?

So there are several manuevers that do work well with TWF, but they aren't necessarily obvious. Basically anything that applies to all of your attacks (and doesn't use your bonus action) works well with TWF. Also all of the techniques that consume 2 attacks, you can throw in your off hand to get more bonus on those.

Examples:

1) Rake - Get +1d8 on your extra attacks.
2) Knockdown assault (Kind of) - Again more attacks is more chances to trip, but off hand attacks tend to do less damage and so decrease the chance of a tirigger.
3) Eye Slash - You hit the target and blind them with the main attack, then can follow up and gain advantage with the off hand.
4) Dangerous Strikes - Higher crit chances benefits more attacks.
5) Stunning Assault - Similar to Eye slash

That reminds me, does Instant Strike actually do anything? We've always played it that drawing your weapon was part of the free "object interaction" rules in 5e.

 

[Stalker0]

So what interesting combos have people come up with? I'm not great at combos myself, but was immediately amused by Stand Tall plus Hurl Ally, which would allow you to toss an ally the same size as yourself.

Not necessarily powerful, but I think the combo of Horizon Shot and Throwing Stance allowing me to throw Greatswords 600 feet or more is pretty hilarious

Instinctive Counterattack combos well with lots of techniques, as extra action can receive the technique benefit.

 

[Tinker-TDC]

Can someone help me understand Apotheosis Assault?
It requires 3 points and 3 attacks to use so let's say I'm a 15th level fighter with a longsword.
Instead of making 3 attacks I would make 1 attack and, as written, determine the number of successful hits (1), add up the damage dice for each attack (1d8), roll it all at once (4), and then add my static bonus to damage (+4).
I successfully deal 8 damage as a 15th level fighter.

Say instead I'm the same fighter at 20th level. I make 2 attacks (3 attacks to use the technique and 1 more because I have 4 attacks), determine the number of successful hits (2), add up the damage dice for each attack (2d8), roll it all at once (9), and then add my static bonus to damage (+4) only once.
I successfully deal 13 damage. If I only made two attacks of my four and did not use the technique I would have dealt 17 damage. If I used my usual attack action I would attack four times and deal around 34 damage.

I guess the question is: is LevelUp going to have enough monsters that are immune to all damage that this technique would ever be useful?

 

[Stalker0]

View attachment 135376
Can someone help me understand Apotheosis Attack?
It requires 3 points and 3 attacks to use so let's say I'm a 15th level fighter with a longsword.
Instead of making 3 attacks I would make 1 attack and, as written, determine the number of successful hits (1), add up the damage dice for each attack (1d8), roll it all at once (4), and then add my static bonus to damage (+4).
I successfully deal 8 damage as a 15th level fighter.

Say instead I'm the same fighter at 20th level. I make 2 attacks (3 attacks to use the technique and 1 more because I have 4 attacks), determine the number of successful hits (2), add up the damage dice for each attack (2d8), roll it all at once (9), and then add my static bonus to damage (+4) only once.
I successfully deal 13 damage. If I only made two attacks of my four and did not use the technique I would have dealt 17 damage. If I used my usual attack action I would attack four times and deal around 34 damage.

I guess the question is: is LevelUp going to have enough monsters that are immune to all damage that this technique would ever be useful?

Honestly I read it as “you get all your attacks, but do it in this special way”.

now your ruling I think is more accurate, and horribly weak as you noted. My version you at least gain all the attack die, but you still lose a lot in ability score damage.

neither version is good IMO, it’s one of the maneuvers I definately flagged for second review

 

[Morrus]

View attachment 135376
Can someone help me understand Apotheosis Assault?
It requires 3 points and 3 attacks to use so let's say I'm a 15th level fighter with a longsword.
Instead of making 3 attacks I would make 1 attack and, as written, determine the number of successful hits (1), add up the damage dice for each attack (1d8), roll it all at once (4), and then add my static bonus to damage (+4).
I successfully deal 8 damage as a 15th level fighter.

Say instead I'm the same fighter at 20th level. I make 2 attacks (3 attacks to use the technique and 1 more because I have 4 attacks), determine the number of successful hits (2), add up the damage dice for each attack (2d8), roll it all at once (9), and then add my static bonus to damage (+4) only once.
I successfully deal 13 damage. If I only made two attacks of my four and did not use the technique I would have dealt 17 damage. If I used my usual attack action I would attack four times and deal around 34 damage.

I guess the question is: is LevelUp going to have enough monsters that are immune to all damage that this technique would ever be useful?

I’m not the writer for this, so can’t speak with authority, but I’m told the benefit is the lack of reactions allowed.

 

[Tinker-TDC]

I’m not the writer for this, so can’t speak with authority, but I’m told the benefit is the lack of reactions allowed.

That's interesting. There must be some pretty good reactions because looking at what it does I'd give it maybe second-degree and 1 exertion for most of the reactions I'm familiar with. Love most of them though!

 

[Faolyn]

I’m not the writer for this, so can’t speak with authority, but I’m told the benefit is the lack of reactions allowed.

I would have thought that it was the ability to ignore resistances and immunities that was the useful part. Because that was the only reason I could think of why this was even a maneuver. But now that I think about it, by the time you get this maneuver, it's unlikely that nobody in the party has magical weapons the spells needed to get past a creature's resistances.

The lack of reactions is kind of weak, IMO. Unless, as Tinker-TDC says, some creatures have really good reactions.

 

[tetrasodium]

• Basic Maneuvers, adamant mountain, biting zephyr, & mirror's glint here
• Mist & shade, rapid current, & razor's edge here

Spoiler: Sanguine Knot

• Doubleteam: The cost is just massively off on this. Not only does someone need to take the maneuver but they need to expend a point of exertion plus a bonus action before an ally can themselves use a bonus action to make an athletics check that hopefully maybe trips or shoves the opponent.
• Legion stance: bit iffy on the triggering with so many of the crit range enhancing things being per use or a stance themselves. Allowing an ally to make an AoO when you crit isn't bad, but without being able to use it in conjunction with crit range enhancing stances it feels like this should be improved somehow or inverted so you can make an AoO when an ally crits a creature you are in reach of
• Shield Wall: Shields are pretty iffy on cost/benefit in o5e for some reason & I rarely ever see more than one player in the group with one but with a5e having 3 different types of shields that might change. Either way this is probably good to some degree in groups with multiple shield users. Given back to back I wonder if this should be a stance?
• Shoulder Check: It just sounds like this will be fun in the bob stands up yells boom at the zombie & everyone cheers kinda way. I can't wait.
• Back to back: This sounds pretty much identical to shield walll for the same cost without the double shield restriction. Unless I'm missing something one or both of these should probably change
• Double tackle: Neat use of teamwork but the creature can just stand up next round unless things are changing. grapple/knock prone effects in o5e are usually one of those things that sound cooler on a mechanical level than thy actually are
• Dual Grapple: sounds like a fun twist on grappling but not sure about the cost/benefit.
• Follow-up Topple: The first thing I imagine when I read this is a player asking "is tat trip in addition to or instead of damage from the attack?" In addition to this is really good. Instead of,... I'm not sure.
• Hurl Ally: I've seen a bear form moon druid do this with a kenku rogue much to everyone's amusement when the feathery "dart" struck true & started stabbing so look forward to this
• Look at me!: Seems like it would be situational but anyone with reach might get great use out of this... maybe. I'm not sure either way
• Body guard: Pretty awesome rescue card for tanky types to keep in their pocket, the group will really feel it when this gets used well.
• Brave Shield: wowworthy way of making using a shield awesome when saves are going to be critical
• Doubletime: mass disengage will be awesome in a lot of situations I'm sure
• Bloodbond: This seems a little too niche & feels like maybe it should last more than one round even if it resets each round.
• Rallying cry: Most martials don't have any (good) ways of healing an ally in desperate need & healing kits are terribad so this provides what will probably be very appreciated healing capability.
• United we Stand: Giving up an attack to potentially give all of your allies a free attack on something is pretty cool/

Spoiler: Spirited steed

• Cavalier stance: In multiple campaigns I've seen a player take mounted combatant to synrgize with a moon druid(kinda) & it always falls a little short because there is extra work & the rider gets benefits while the druid not so much. This is pretty awesome for solving that but probbably works well for normal mounts too.
• Lancer Strike: It feelsodd that this seems to be the first charge type maneuver that gives some bonus beyond movement.
• Mounted Charge: Much the same as lancer strike
• Riding Leap: I feel myself at a loss searching for the value in this to a player. Sure it sounds dramatic & interesting but mechanically feels lacking
• Rearing Menace: Interesting aoe fear for disrupting things
• Spur Mount: mounts being subjected to save or x stuff can be the end of a mount pretty eaily & this does a nice job of helping improve the odds.
• Trample: 2d6 might not seem like much, but it adds up & will really make riding a mount feel different when useful.
• Launched strike: guaranteed crits are awesome to pack in the quiver, especially for rogues paladins/heralds & anyone with a bursting weapon
• Sacrifice mount: A moon druid might not care & could even appreciate being subjected to this on top of some of the cool things already in this tradition giving them a step up & even riding a normal mount there might be situayions where it's more desirable than the rider getting wacked themselves
• Saddled blows: That's a really nice assortment of status condition debuffs to pick from.
• Become one: Nifty tool for making some mount choices really shine.
• Prodigious Leap: There are a lot of times where even a short fly speed like this will be extremely useful to the party when smeone has a mount.
• Spirited whistle: This should maybe include a footnote for intelligent mounts (friendly monsters, moon druids, awakened stuff, etc) maybe give it some kind of buff to do it in that case?
• steely steed stance: This literally made me say "holy naughty word". Paired with a moon druid or nonstandard mount it could be the most powerful stance in the pdf but I don't think it's problematic because that player/on druid combo always seems so awkward to coordinate & most of the time I've seen it with a kobold moon druid in more than one campaign I was running
• Devastating charge: Nifty way of coordinating with a pounce capable mount but still nice with other mounts
• Reassuring Pat: Mountstake a lot of damage when attacked & are hard to heal, this offers a nice option.
• Wheeling charge: neat sounding but mechanically your giving up two attacks to make two attacks with some complicated positioning dance in the mix. Even if your mount gets to take the dodge action the payoff seems lacking.

Spoiler: Tempered iron

• Imposing Glare: Even with the penalty on a second use per combat this could offer a melee type a powerful tool in combat to draw at the right time & it's just cool.
• Purge Magic: Amusing name to get an AoO against someone casting a spell but raises the question if this triggers a concentration check or not but that kind of answer seems like it belongs in spellcasting rules
• Striding strings: Seems like it might be useful sometimes... maybe. either way I bet it will make players feel cool when they use it
• Zealous stance: Kind of an interesting twist on reckless attack as a stance
• Faith within: Nice assortment of conditions you can reaction to get a second chance at saving against to make this a serious contender for "which maneuver to take next" questions.
• Gaze of conviction: Interesting bit of mind control, the ends if you attack something else & bonus action along with short duration probably do a nice job of offsetting the mind control. I like the use of compelled rather than forced since it allows some more room for not walking through a wall of thorns or something like taking a bunch AoOs setup for a "forced to" move
• Stunning assault: This is extremely costly given the 2 attack burn but being able to run it on all of your attacks till the end of your next turn probably makes it work out even if fighter takes this at level 8 when they first get access to this
• Break spell: It sounds like maybe this answers the question about if purge magic forces a concentration check.. maybe... Presumably maneuver DC will ofte be higher tha damage on a normal hit but at least 05e concentration checks are silly low dc unless a caster gets hit for "zomg that was like half my health & my lung is on the ground" so that's an easy bar to hit.
• Defy magic: Interesting way of adding a SR type mechanic. 7th level spells are so rare that it makes for a neat loophole that will probably never come up.
• Dispelling Assault: I'm not sure how I feel about skipping two attacks to get increased crit range till the start of your next turn even if you can maybe get a crit that nukes lower level spells. The cost seems a bit high if I understand how those two attack costs work right
• Devoted Assault: This interesting maneuver is almost a must to really get the most out of some of these tempered iron maneuvers but it feels like it should maybe be 1 min concentration like focus foe in razor's edge rather than till the start of your next turn.
• Dispelling charge: This is a pretty neat charge effect & quite powerful when it can go since spellcasters casting spells are almost always bad news for the party
• Holy pyre stance: Nifty bit of reciprocity to make using this qualify someone as an ally caster's best friend worthy of extra attention
• Spell shattering strike: Instead of speed reduced to zero this should grapple them with their disrupted spell energy for the same duration.
• Branding steel: I like the interaction with move closer>save & heal30 hp along with all the actual debuffs for a good mix.
• Burning embers of faith: interesting way of coming back up, but it doesn't say you can take this action while incap like unyielding & technically you can't use it when reduced to zero
• Master of tempered iron: oh my god, +level damage & maybe more against spellcasters?... I saw a lot of neat looking stuff in the spells summary so this makes me look forward to the end result of actual spells. As a 5th level maneuver it's maybe balanced

Spoiler: tooth & claw

• Bounding strike: with all the ways one could get expertise dice on acrobatics & athletics this could make for a very reliable charging attack
• Raking strikes: even with disadvantage on it, getting a second attack potentially as early as level 1 this could be pretty nice
• Ride the enemy: probably fun for players. I'm not really sure about the usefulness of climb on, but with flying foes I could definitely see it being useful
• Springing stance: It seems like there are a lot of jump enhancing maneuvers but I'm not sure what changes elsewhere make them useful
• expert tumble: It can be tough to move your full speed unless foes are more than that far away but the ac bump is probably a worthy boon in return
• Primal intercept: neat bit of biteyness to keep in the quiver for those times it's useful, especially for rogues.
• Gut strike: nifty debuff.
• Rake: kinda nice extra damage but it's not clear if you need to hit the foe twice on the turn you activate this or if that;s just
• fluff
• Wild capering: maybe useful?
• Blind instinct: oooooOOOoo blindsighy with extra toys when it counts
• Bloody roar: wow wis save or psychic damage cube attack is going to be interesting even if damage isn't very high given the fear that goes with it.
• Mercurial striking stance: this is going to feel very powerful & avoids the annoying slowdown of "holdon I reroll 1s&2s" Statistically it might only bump the average damage half a point or two but getting rid of those ones & twos entirely will feel a lot better by making attacks reliable & that gets even better with stuff like sneak dice
• Prey on the weak: Another interesting on demand crit maneuver
• Furious barrage: Given that anyoone with only two attacks could use this to get three or more attacks this is going to feel pretty awesome like when someone gets a good run on an exploding dice system such as savage worlds
• Howl at the moon: Interesting combo that will probably feel pretty cool in play
• Wounded animal Gambit: nifty way of reworking feign death into something actually useful.

Spoiler: unending wheel

• Dangerous signature: The duration & way of clearing this is much better than the old equivalent while still being pretty useful
• Throwing stance: This could be an automatic crit & still be questionable unless it's like a dagger or something you can carry tons of & it doesn't really do anything in that case. The problem with throwing a nice weapon is that now your nice weapon is far away.
• Victory Pose: Pretty tenuous circumstances to get a crit and then have allies making death saves in the next minute. Your probably better off by far taking one of the heal an ally maneuvers unless this is altered to something else.
• Wounding Strike: The first actual Dot , nifty.
• Deflect strike: Reduce damage by a number of d6's equal to prof bonus is going to be pretty huge & really scale well as the party levels
• Instant strike: Tough to gauge this one without knowing what draw a weapon costs when the time comes. If the action economy is the same for that then it's tough to see this doing anything?
• Preternatural strikes: With the herald level 10ish ability it sounds like this kind of effect might take more than just any +1 weapon so maybe good?
• Disarming assault: It feels like these kind of disarm things should be limited to one handed items held. This is going to be a lot of disarm attempts too.
• Expert sidestep: nifty +ac reaction ability
• Unsettling injury: End concentration and/or a foes's combat stance is pretty awesome'
• Any weapon stance: we don't know enough about how equipment will be reworked to judge this but the mention of "rare weapons" definitely sounds interesting
• Explosive step: another crit range improving maneuver to stack with the others
• Mistaken opportunity: Turn a miss into attacking something else in reach with advantage will make pole arms & other reach weapons interesting.
• Wind strike: Much ore interesting than throw anything stance, maybe this should be the stance instead?
• Heart of the sword: I think thi might be the first 1 minute crit range bump making it pretty interesting by comparison.
• Apotheosis: Interesting way for martial types to overcome a DR type system that penalizes multiple smaller attacks more than one big one but with o5e having resist50% that works a bit different it raises interesting questions about the a5e changes
• Unparalleled under heaven:why does this take 2 attacks then seem to give them back with a huge bonus I could see this being awesome when paired with techniques that grant extra attacks & guaranteed crits.
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[tetrasodium]

There are a lot of maneuvers that say things like

• Your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of
  18–20. If you already have a feature that increases
  the range of your critical hits, your critical hit range
  increases by 1 (maximum 17–20).
• Until the start of your next turn, your weapon
  attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 19–20.
• When you hit a creature with a melee weapon
  attack on a roll of 18 or 19, you can use your reaction
  to turn the attack into a critical hit.

As written they all represent a bunch of defined one off edge cases that work nicely together everywhere but shorthand on a sheet & in memory. People bring up the 7 plus or minus three things in memory thing pretty often but frequently leave out how chunked data (like local areacodes zip codes etc) generally stores as a single item.


If instead of the bullet points this was just "keen: Each time an attack has keen from a source such as a weapon buff or class abilities the crit range is extended by 1 down to 17-20 so 1 keen would be 19-20 while 2 & 3 keen would be 18-20 & 17-20 respectively" Then all of those abilities could just say they give x tiers of keen or something & bob can look at his sheet to remind the gm the twist the blade is 2 steps of keen while sue happens to remember that dangerous strikes is "the 1xkeen stance"

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

I'm sorry but these Maneuvers need a total revamp and many need a rewrite. There is not enough space in the survey of this playtest to write what needs help.

There are just far too many that are written using some seriously bad grammar.