Playtest (A5E) Level Up Playtest Document #16: Combat Maneuvers

Welcome to the 16th Level Up playtest document.

Last year we released the first half of the combat maneuvers as part of the fighter class playtest. Now it’s time to show you the revised chapter.

This is a long document with about 170 maneuvers; combat maneuvers occupy the same conceptual space for martial characters that spells do for magical characters (although, of course, they are all non-magical).

We don’t expect you to evaluate every maneuver in this document. Maneuvers are divided into 11 Traditions and we ask that you pick one or more Traditions to focus on and then give us your feedback via the playtest survey.

Level Up Playtest Document #16: Combat Maneuvers — Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

Welcome to the 16th Level Up playtest document. This playtest contains a candidate for the game’s Combat Maneuvers system.

www.levelup5e.com

When you are ready, please fill out the combat maneuvers playtest survey.

Mailchimp Survey

us15.list-manage.com

 

[Horwath]

Downloaded the file.

If the recap table there is lots of typos(or changes from playtest) about what classes get what degrees of maneuvers at what levels.

It will be a handful to read and appraise them all

Also all traditions could have class tags under them written.

 

[Stalker0]

A few general comments:

1) The number of attacks for a technique always confuses me at first glance. For example the (2 attacks of stunning) always look like "+2 attacks" to me.

So personally I would prefer the format: Stunning Strike (-1 attack). So I know after using the maneuver that I have less attack still remaining to me.

2) Basic Melee damage seems so low that its not even worth tracking. The damage scales from 1-3 damage at the higher levels....why even bother?

3) I don't like the change to the Grapple rules away from opposed Athletics checks. The vanilla rules actually makes grapple very fluid, and gives solid combat benefits for proficiency or expertise in the skill. While Grapple doesn't do a lot in 5e....its counterbalanced by actually being pretty easy to apply in many circumstances. A high strength character with good athletics is actually a very solid grappler right out of the box.

By going to the saving throw, now only the person's stat is used to really adjust the lever, which is a shame.

4) I like the new overrun, that's pretty solid and simple.

5) If you look at Lean into It vs Crushing Blow, one of them is a Technique, and the other one is just an Action. I'm not sure what the difference is, don't both ultimately give you an attack that does an effect? The way it currently reads to me.

Lean into It: Part of my attack action, I make one attack with the technique, and then get my remaining attacks as normal. (similar to how grapple or shove works).

Crushing Blow: Consumes my action. I just happened to get an attack as part of the action. But if that's the case, then why even mention the 2 attacks part.....technically as an action it should consume all attacks I have.

 

[Faolyn]

Thanks! I look forward to reading through all these.

My only questions (for now) are:

Will there be any way--such as by a feat--for a non-martial to get a maneuver? Or should we just assume that the 05e feat Martial Adept could be adapted to LU maneuvers?

The packet says Warlord. Does that mean you decided to not change the name after all? Or is that just a placeholder?

 

[Tinker-TDC]

Off the top might want to read this one over again:

I can't see what that last paragraph means. I think I know what is intended, but I don't think that's what's written down.

 

[Tinker-TDC]

Off the top might want to read this one over again:
View attachment 135270

I can't see what that last paragraph means. I think I know what is intended, but I don't think that's what's written down.

Okay, seeing a similar wording here I don't think I had the intent correct. Is it if you crit on your advantage roll AND hit on your other advantage roll it's a crit as normal but also with an additional damage die?

Also on the second one is it implied that you are ignoring long-range disadvantage or do you get advantage to cancel out long-range disadvantage?

 

[Stalker0]

View attachment 135271
Okay, seeing a similar wording here I don't think I had the intent correct. Is it if you crit on your advantage roll AND hit on your other advantage roll it's a crit as normal but also with an additional damage die?

Also on the second one is it implied that you are ignoring long-range disadvantage or do you get advantage to cancel out long-range disadvantage?

So I read it as the following.

You roll with advantage, and one of the following scenarios occur:

1) Both rolls miss: You miss.
2) One roll hits/one misses: You hit as normal
3) Both rolls hit: You get a crit
4) One roll crits/one hits: You get a crit, and an additional damage die.
5) Both roll crits: You get a crit, and an additional damage die (aka the same as number 4).

 

[Tinker-TDC]

2 points in title and 1 exertion in description.

 

[Stalker0]

My quick and dirty "feel" for each school as I read through the manuevers:

Adamant Mountain: Fun school that seems penalized by expensive maneuvers. Your doing big things, but your going to be doing fewer things than other schools.

Biting Zephyr: Its alright, a little clunky but it does the job.

Mirror's Glint: One of my favorites, I really feel the counterattack and "use the opponent's strength against them", a lot of fun things here. I'll just note I think Mirror Shard Puzzle should be a stance.

Mist and Shade: Also known as "how many ways do I need to get a pickpocket check in?" It does feel a little repetitive, I think its a school that definitely rewards creativity, you have to really use your skills or this one will feel lackluster.

Rapid Current: Probably my favorite all around school. You move fast, attack fast, heck you can basically guarantee you go first in a combat, there's just good stuff all around here.

Razor's Edge: For crit fishers, you have found your home. Some of the maneuvers here seem repetitive off of Mirror's Glint and Rapid Current. I feel like this is a school I would pull a few maneuvers from, but it wouldn't ever be my primary.

Sanguine Knot: I like that its often the "help my ally...AND myself", that way I can be helpful and greedy at the same time. And any school that lets me throw the halfling around like a bowling ball gets bonus points. Also as a weird side effect of many of the manuevers, I would argue that Sanguine Knot is probably the best "reach weapon school" there is, as so many of the effects work off of "allies within your reach".

Spirited Steed: I haven't played a mounted rider in 5e so hard for me to say on this one.

Tempered Iron: This honestly feels like two completely different schools. You have the "fearsome juggernaut" and then you have the "anti-magic warrior". The maneuvers are cool enough, so its not necessarily an issue but its quite noticeable. Its another school I wouldn't take as primary but might take 1-2 maneuvers along the way.

I also feel that the designers have casters casting in melee a lot more than my table does.

Tooth and Claw: Its a fun grab bag of movement and animal type maneuvers, it does the job.

Unending Wheel: Flavorwise, feels like the "Samurai School". I want to like it, as I like a lot of the maneuver concepts, but it just seems a little bit off. I think Razor's edge does a lot of what this school does but better.

 

[Morrus]

Be sure to flag this stuff in the survey.