LIfe Without Alignment

[Desdichado]

In particular, I really disliked that for even the most basic adventure featuring deception, intrigue, etc. you needed powerful magic to avoid low level spells and abilities like detect evil and know alignment, and even then the fact someone was hiding their alignment was a dead giveaway.

Not necessarily. Guilty (especially of the specific problem you're investigating) and evil are not the same thing.

 

[chaotix42]

Can I ask a question? Have you ever played another RPG other than D&D? I can't think (off hand) of any other game that has alignment, and certainly I've never heard of anyone complaining that their GURPS or HERO or whatever other system game spiralled out of control because of the lack of roleplaying guidance that alignment causes.

I guess I could better address the questions if I understood exactly what if is you are afraid would (or will) happen without a strictly defined alignment. I've never played in a game where alignment featured; even in my D&D games we minimize it to the point of nonexistence without formally removing it.

Rifts had alignments.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Declarative alignment works for me.

I'll miss Law and Chaos if they're not there, though.

 

[Raduin711]

The concerns and problems you guys are seeing are completely foreign to me. Can I ask a question? Have you ever played another RPG other than D&D? I can't think (off hand) of any other game that has alignment, and certainly I've never heard of anyone complaining that their GURPS or HERO or whatever other system game spiralled out of control because of the lack of roleplaying guidance that alignment causes.

I guess I could better address the questions if I understood exactly what if is you are afraid would (or will) happen without a strictly defined alignment. I've never played in a game where alignment featured; even in my D&D games we minimize it to the point of nonexistence without formally removing it.

WoD has an alignment system. It's called Morality, and it is a scale of 1 (Hitler) to 10 (Mother Theresa). Doing things that are considered lower than your current morality score drops it, with the added effect of possibly picking up some form of crazy on your way to lower depths of depravity. Like most things in WoD, Morality is loosely defined.

In my experience, Morality gets the same treatment as alignment in your games. Those few times it does come up, the player knows he is pushing it, and the ST is just calling him on it.

 

[JDJblatherings]

There have been dozens (hundreds?) of RPGs with "Alignment" in one form or another if it is called honor, morality, empathy, corruption, lightside/darkside points, personality traits it all works out to some sort of game mechnaic to aid a player in fitting the charcater and his actions into the campaign.

I am glad that it is not beign disgarded entirely but is instead beign used to associate ones allegiance to soem sort of cosmic struggle (like it is suppsoed to be in many settings).

 

[GreatLemur]

WoD has an alignment system. It's called Morality, and it is a scale of 1 (Hitler) to 10 (Mother Theresa). Doing things that are considered lower than your current morality score drops it, with the added effect of possibly picking up some form of crazy on your way to lower depths of depravity. Like most things in WoD, Morality is loosely defined.

I'd actually say that's a little bit different from what I'd call an alignment system. I mean, it's not a descriptive trait that's set at character creation and considered unlikely to change; it's a gauge that starts at a default base and reacts to in-game choices.

Now Palladium games (such as Rifts) definitely have a strongly D&D-style alignment system, so that's a valid example. There are certainly others, too. But the essence of Hobo's point remains: Alignments aren't universal in RPGs, and they sure as hell ain't necessary.

 

[Acid_crash]

I am happy that alignment is playing less of a part in the game now... so when I jettison it out of 4e the players will be able to handle it better, and I won't have rules of crap to enforce keeping it in place.

No more detect evil, thank goodness, so I don't need evil alignment in my games... that frees me up to better and more open roleplaying.

 

[FourthBear]

I can honestly say that whenever I've played RPGs without alignment, I've *never* encountered anyone (including myself) stating that the game would be better if only it had an alignment system. Either the game is clearly black and white morality already, in which case we didn't need alignment or the game had many grey areas in morality, in which case no one wanted alignment.

 

[Desdichado]

Rifts had alignments.

OH NOEZ!!!! My whole argument is RUINED now!

 

[WayneLigon]

Determining evil by a persons actions seems out of place in a setting where evil can be seen as absolute.

I think with the reduction in important for alignment, the idea that D&D has an absolute good or evil is an idea that will fall by the wayside and not be applicable anymore.