D&D 5E Lightning Bolt, Web, and Sleep

[ren1999]

At 5th level, a wizard can do 6d6/2 automatic damage to all enemies within a line. So let's line up 20 1st level wizard enemies with 8 hit points and kill them all without needing to roll much.

Web is what?
range 50 feet
burst 20 feet
5 feet depth
until wizard's concentration is broken? How do we determine that?
lasts for 1 turn if not anchored
shot with web enemies do spellDC vs dexSave, victim remains ensnared?
enemy standard action spellDC vs strSave to break free?
burning ensnared enemies does 2d4 fire damage

Sleep is what?
roll 3d8 to determine the hit points of all the enemies you can affect. That's a lot of work for everyone.
range 100 feet
burst 20 feet
they fall unconscious for 1 minute? 6 seconds per turn? 1 minute is?
until struck or slapped

 

[DEFCON 1]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what exactly you're talking about here. Are you complaining about these three spells? Just pointing out what they do? What exactly are you looking for?

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Good luck lining up those enemies.

Concentration rules are in 'How to Play' - you can maintain one spell by concentration at once and Constitution checks are required to avoid losing the spell when you take damage or otherwise get interrupted. Now sure what other questions you are answering.

I'm not sure if they defined a round, but I would assume six seconds per round for now.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I think he's complaining its confusing and OP.

I'm not sure why 5th-level wizards are facing opponents with only 8 hp. If they're that weak, then there's lots of them, so they're not going to be sitting in a convenient line.

Sleep does seem badly written. Why did WotC go back to the HD (well, hit point) limit?

 

[Blackbrrd]

Just look at the hp limit as fixed damage.

On the other hand, I didn't really like the 5e spells, but it's mostly the Cleric spells I think are bad.

 

[Dandu]

So let's line up 20 1st level wizard enemies with 8 hit points and kill them all without needing to roll much.

Let us know when you're done doing that.

 

[kerleth]

Sleep seems a little fiddly to me as well. I'm pretty sure the 6 second round is actually mentioned in the "How To Play", but I wouldn't swear to it.

If I am understanding the common theme between your threads ren, it seems to be that next is broken. You are trying to perfectly align everyone so that they will be balanced in all situations. That is a noble goal, but one that can only lead to either monotany or frustration. There are going to be variables that cannot be controlled. There are going to be situations where one character shines over another. That is a part of the game, and is unavoidable. I myself would say it is a good thing.

Now I may be completely misunderstanding, and if so I sincerely apologize. Also, please don't consider this any sort of personal attack. I just noticed that most of your posts on next seem to be of that sort. Your viewpoint seems to differ from mine on many things, and that makes me curious to understand it more. I'm wierd like that. I also do think it is a valuable exercise when trying to determine
1)fiddliness, and
2)relative power
to line up min, max, and average potential targets affected and complications created by spells like you are doing. If I am correct in assuming you have an issue with these spells, may I ask what your suggestions are?
*Note: I may not be on for a couple of days, so please do not be insulted if I do not respond immediately. Hmmm, assuming that you would read this, respond directly to me, and then care if I responded or not is rather arrogant on my part isn't it?

 

[Falling Icicle]

Just look at the hp limit as fixed damage.

The problem is the fake damae of Sleep is much weaker than real damage because if you don't do enough fake damage to "kill" a creature, the spell does nothing at all. A spell that inflicts real damage at least reduces their hit points.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it - they really need to stop using hp thresholds on spells. Fortunately, I only saw a few spells in the latest playtest packet that were still using that mechanic (Command, Polymorph and Sleep), so hopefully that's an indication that it's on its way out.

I would change Sleep in the following ways:
* It only affects a single target. Mass sleep spell could be available as a higher level spell (4th level would probably be appropriate).
* It only affects living creatures. I was surprised to see that the spell doesn't already have that limitation.
* Remove the fake damage. The creature instead gets a wisdom save to negate the effect. If you or your allies are currently threatening the target, or it is otherwise agitated, it gets advantage on its save (adrenaline, and all that).
* in battle or other chaotic situations, the subject would get a saving throw (with advantage) each round to wake up. It would still automatically wake up if damaged, slapped, etc.

Using Hold Person, a 2nd level spell, as a basis for comparison, I think that would make it more balanced for a 1st level spell. It's a bit less valuable in combat because the target gets advantage on its save, so it's best for putting a guard to sleep so you can sneak by and other such situations. Like Hold Person, the person gets a save each round in battle, but the target gets advantage on its save and other people can spend an action to wake them, which they can't do with a victim of hold person. Sleep does have one advantage over hold person - it can affect non-humanoid creatures. Unconscious is also a bit worse than Paralyzed, but not by much.

 

[ren1999]

Let us know when you're done doing that.

All of you will be goofing off in the break room and then a 5th level wizard is going to come along and zap you with a lightning bolt.

 

[ren1999]

Good luck lining up those enemies.

Concentration rules are in 'How to Play' - you can maintain one spell by concentration at once and Constitution checks are required to avoid losing the spell when you take damage or otherwise get interrupted. Now sure what other questions you are answering.

I'm not sure if they defined a round, but I would assume six seconds per round for now.

Thanks for answering that. I read the rules in the last play test and assumed they didn't change. Assuming..