TSR Lorraine Williams, unfairly lambasted?

[S'mon]

Remember B/X was aimed at kids. No demons, devil's etc.

I did wonder if maybe they should have released it as an AD&D module. But B3 comes from the B/X era, and B/X was not particularly juvenile or 'safe'. Moldvay's work like B4 is much more S&S than High Fantasy. And there is a 'Death Demon' in X2 Castle Amber.
Mentzer 1983 Basic (which I also love) is much more explicitly kid-friendly despite the murder of Aleena!

Edit: Found this Alexandrian investigation of the B3 controversy - The Day the Old School Died

 

[Zardnaar]

Personally b have no problem with the art but yeah imagine printing it now let alone 1981.

 

[Sadras]

The art is fine, some people are not.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Your supposed 'art depicting S&M ritual torture'

https://media.wired.com/photos/5b1ec6190da4a86262ab0a64/master/w_1716,h_1146,c_limit/The%20Illusion%20of%20the%20Decapus.png

The module text just describes some ugly humanoids poking their female captive with sticks. This is well within the traditional S&S fantasy mainstream.

Come on now, you can't be serious with this. It's literally an image of what most people looking at would associate with S&M and torture (which was the whole point, to avoid that association). It's the literal definition of what S&M and torture are. Even the body text describes taking what little clothes she has left on off. Oddly you changed "swords" to "sticks" and omitted that part about taking her clothes off. Hmm....

A beautiful young woman hangs from the ceiling. Nine ugly men can be seen poking their swords
lightly into her flesh, all the while taunting her in an unknown language and pulling at what few clothes
she has on. Part of her ankle length hair has been wrapped around her legs, securely binding them
together, while the rest of her hair has been used to tie her hands to a ceiling beam.

 

[Shardstone]

As probably one of the youngest people in this thread, I think I have a different perspective, because I don't worship Gygax, or even see him as much of a role model as a lot of others here do. I think that this perspective on Gygax that a lot of people in the previous generation hold makes Lorraine come off in a more negative light.

In my opinion, the two of them both destroyed a would-be fantastic game company and set back RPGs as a hobby by several decades with their terrible decisions.

 

[Morrus]

In my opinion, the two of them both destroyed a would-be fantastic game company and set back RPGs as a hobby by several decades with their terrible decisions.

Set back RPGs? In what sense? They continued to exist, continued to be developed, continued to be sold, and continued to be played. I'm not clear what "setting back" the hobby means. (And several decades? They've only been around about 40 years).

 

[Shardstone]

Set back RPGs? In what sense? They continued to exist, continued to be developed, continued to be sold, and continued to be played. I'm not clear what "setting back" the hobby means. (And several decades? They've only been around about 40 years).

I can't help but feel the Satanic Panic could have been handled better.

I can't help but feel that Arneson being forced to leave and then sue hindered TSR's potential.

I can't help but feel that smarter business decisions would have led to TSR blooming much harder than it did.

I can't help but feel that a smarter management of funds, of contracts, and of creatives would have led to TSR blooming much harder than it did.

Am I talking about a bunch of what-ifs? Yes. So ultimately its all useless. But I still feel this way.

Please don't confuse my statement with some strange idea that I'm saying that there was no RPG development. There was. I'm saying that things could have potentially been much brighter then they were.

 

[LordEntrails]

It's the literal definition of what S&M and torture are

S&M and torture are NOT synonymous. In fact, practitioners of S&M are very adamant about certain aspects (Safe, Sane, Consensual) that mean the two are absolutely exclusive.

Now, it is very reasonable that a piece of artwork could be interpreted to be representing a scene of either type.

 

[Umbran]

I can't help but feel the Satanic Panic could have been handled better.

Maybe. But.. could we have expected it to be handled better? TSR was tiny, and Public Relations management was not nearly so well-understood in the day (and if it was, could TSR have afforded a team smart enough to handle it?). Plus, the panic may have help[ed drive sales - so limiting the negative impact might have limited growth!

I can't help but feel that Arneson being forced to leave and then sue hindered TSR's potential.

Maybe? What we've heard is that Arneson was not interested in the business end and was not good at codifying and productizing - that seems to have been Gygax's forte. Arneson was an idea man. There's only so many great ideas you can expect the starting market to swallow.

It could have been handled better, in that Arneson personally should have been treated better.

I can't help but feel that smarter business decisions would have led to TSR blooming much harder than it did.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, understood the dynamics of the RPG market at the time. Heck, it could be said that nobody has really understood them until.. about now, actually - with 5e they seem to have finally found the sweet spot of content and rules generation.

So, yes, smarter business decisions could have been made, but the knowledge to expect anyone to be able to make them didn't exist yet.

I can't help but feel that a smarter management of funds, of contracts, and of creatives would have led to TSR blooming much harder than it did.

I am not sure harder-bigger-faster is actually the best way to move creative products forward. They did bloom massively. They already couldn't handle that well. Blooming even more would only have taken them beyond their ability to manage further.

 

[Parmandur]

I feel it is pretty hard to argue that if Gygax snorted less cocaine, whored around less, and was all around less dissolute with spending, he would have been better positioend to make solid busienss decisions.

Mistakes were made.