TSR Lorraine Williams, unfairly lambasted?

[S'mon]

Oddly you changed "swords" to "sticks"

Yeah I didn't re-read the text, even though it is available at Vaults of Pandius - http://www.pandius.com/b3_orig.pdf

It's certainly sexually suggestive, but less so than the Eldritch Wizardry cover.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Yeah I didn't re-read the text, even though it is available at Vaults of Pandius - http://www.pandius.com/b3_orig.pdf

It's certainly sexually suggestive, but less so than the Eldritch Wizardry cover.

Again, the timeline is important. The Egbert thing had just happened a year prior, and people were going full on associating D&D with witchcraft and torture. You can't compare the art prior to that with the art direction right after.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah I didn't re-read the text, even though it is available at Vaults of Pandius - http://www.pandius.com/b3_orig.pdf

It's certainly sexually suggestive, but less so than the Eldritch Wizardry cover.

it seems to me two dynamics were in play, probably in varying degrees from person to person in this whole shebang: animus against "The Management" in Design directed towards someone viewed as part of the Other Side, and resentment against a female writer by the dudes in Design (see again Bill's comments in the Wired article). I ain't no super-woke feminist myself, but that latter played a part from everything I have seen.

It seems the art was designed to trigger a reaction among management, and Wells had been objecting to the art in the whole process.

 

[The Glen]

People forget that the satanic Panic send several people to prison for years on drummed up outrageous charges. The McMartin preschool case was the worst of the satanic panic. Everybody that was involved in the industry saw what happened if they didn't toe the line. We can laugh at it in hindsight but when it was going on it was a serious threat to the Hobby and everyone involved.

 

[Wiseblood]

Unfairly lambasted? Nah. Arguably the most recognized RPG brand (beloved by fans) and years at the helm. Not a gamer and not good at business. In fact those same business practices had a negative impact on the entire industry.

WotC turned it around. They did it quickly and in turn caused growth of the industry and increased the size and reach of the market.

Paizo had had the rug yanked from under them and had to compete against that name recognition. They did great.

 

[Morrus]

I can't help but feel the Satanic Panic could have been handled better.

I can't help but feel that Arneson being forced to leave and then sue hindered TSR's potential.

I can't help but feel that smarter business decisions would have led to TSR blooming much harder than it did.

I can't help but feel that a smarter management of funds, of contracts, and of creatives would have led to TSR blooming much harder than it did.

Am I talking about a bunch of what-ifs? Yes. So ultimately its all useless. But I still feel this way.

Please don't confuse my statement with some strange idea that I'm saying that there was no RPG development. There was. I'm saying that things could have potentially been much brighter then they were.

No, you misunderstand me. I was curious what you meant by "set back the hobby" - if the hobby was set back by several decades, then what does it look like today if that had not happened (or - the same question - what does it look like in several decades)? How does this setback manifest itself?

 

[darjr]

it seems to me two dynamics were in play, probably in varying degrees from person to person in this whole shebang: animus against "The Management" in Design directed towards someone viewed as part of the Other Side, and resentment against a female writer by the dudes in Design (see again Bill's comments in the Wired article). I ain't no super-woke feminist myself, but that latter played a part from everything I have seen.

It seems the art was designed to trigger a reaction among management, and Wells had been objecting to the art in the whole process.

actully I think your wrong. It looks like TSR was coming under pressure, externally and internally, when the Eldritch Wizardry book was published.

not to mention someone who has done better research than you has already stated thst Gary Gygax nixed it for the art that depicted TSR staff. Not for any perceived s&m content. It really looks like the story of that is hearsay born of misogyny.

 

[Parmandur]

Actually it was taken out of print because staff were depicted in an unflattering light.

actully I think your wrong. It looks like TSR was coming under pressure, externally and internally, when the Eldritch Wizardry book was published.

not to mention someone who has done better research than you has already stated thst Gary Gygax nixed it for the art that depicted TSR staff. Not for any perceived s&m content. It really looks like the story of that is hearsay born of misogyny.

?

Yes, the art was designed to sabotage the module.

 

[darjr]

Oops, that first bit it thought I removed, oh well.

 

[Parmandur]

Oops, that first bit it thought I removed, oh well.

I'm not sure I get the comment still

Listening to the interview with Wells, it seems that anti-Hippie bias, particularly on the part of the Blumes, played a big part.