TSR Lorraine Williams, unfairly lambasted?

[Rob Kuntz]

The Eldritch Wizardry cover (1976) was no more provocative than what had appeared in the bodice-ripping pulps or that was being pandered through Ace and Lancer with the Boris Vallejo covers. One must also note that Barker's EPT (TSR 1975) had more provocative interior illustrations than EW:

 

[Sacrosanct]

Well again, no one is arguing that art in the original B3 was worse than art that came before it. I'm talking about timing. That's important. Probably the most important factor. After the Egbert thing, TSR mandated that the art in basic be more kid friendly (as per the people who where there that I quoted earlier).

It would be like if WoTC put an illustration of a naked women being prodded by swords from a group of leering men in a D&D product now, and saying "It's not a big deal because early D&D had worse art." That wouldn't fly, and WoTC would be lambasted for it.

 

[Umbran]

The Eldritch Wizardry cover (1976) was no more provocative than what had appeared in the bodice-ripping pulps or that was being pandered through Ace and Lancer with the Boris Vallejo covers.

Yeah, but it isn't like humanity is know for comprehensive assessment in its judgements. Or even so much as self-consistency.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Well again, no one is arguing that art in the original B3 was worse than art that came before it. I'm talking about timing. That's important. Probably the most important factor. After the Egbert thing, TSR mandated that the art in basic be more kid friendly (as per the people who where there that I quoted earlier).

It would be like if WoTC put an illustration of a naked women being prodded by swords from a group of leering men in a D&D product now, and saying "It's not a big deal because early D&D had worse art." That wouldn't fly, and WoTC would be lambasted for it.

Sure. But it's not about timing, really/ It's about perception. The Vallejo covers were still the rage (even with Mayfair Games' Role-Aids) and cheesecake was still proliferating the markets everywhere at the time of B3. TSR perceived that they had to change, just as they perceived that the assassin class needed to be eliminated from 2E.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Sure. But it's not about timing, really/ It's about perception. The Vallejo covers were still the rage (even with Mayfair Games' Role-Aids) and cheesecake was still proliferating the markets everywhere at the time of B3. TSR perceived that they had to change, just as they perceived that the assassin class needed to be eliminated from 2E.

Sure. I'm not saying their decision was right. Only that that was their decision. So anyone refusing to follow direction would find themselves in less than ideal light. Especially considering how autocratic the TSR management was, by all accounts. In hindsight, I think we all can agree that it seemed they overreacted. But hindsight is something we have that they didn't have.

 

[billd91]

Sure. But it's not about timing, really/ It's about perception. The Vallejo covers were still the rage (even with Mayfair Games' Role-Aids) and cheesecake was still proliferating the markets everywhere at the time of B3. TSR perceived that they had to change, just as they perceived that the assassin class needed to be eliminated from 2E.

There is a big difference between the one entity in the industry everyone outside knows and the bit players operating below their radar. As the face of RPGing, TSR was in the crosshairs far more than Mayfair was ever going to be with Role-Aids.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

There is a big difference between the one entity in the industry everyone outside knows and the bit players operating below their radar. As the face of RPGing, TSR was in the crosshairs far more than Mayfair was ever going to be with Role-Aids.

Shrug. But Lancer and Ace were not, of course. Depends on how one looks at it.

 

[Lanefan]

To be clear, many of the settings that many people continue to love today, from Forgotten Realms to Planescape, from Al Qadim to Ravenloft, got their start under Williams.

That wasn't a comments about how many settings are a good thing. While I would say that the lack of focus wasn't helpful, I think we can now see that the creation of all of the IP was (in the long-term, at least) beneficial.

That's rose-coloured hindsight, old chap.

At the time - and remember that's the context we're talking here - all those wonderful settings ended up being no more than very large straws on a camel whose back was already near-broken.

Had they been more than that, WotC would have kept 'em in print.

 

[darjr]

@Rob Kuntz do you have any first or second person knowledge about this incident? Was it the rising backlash scare of D&D that killed this adventure?

 

[Rob Kuntz]

@Rob Kuntz do you have any first or second person knowledge about this incident? Was it the rising backlash scare of D&D that killed this adventure?

Nope. But I was acquainted with Jean and spoke with her several times. She was a very liberated sort and a true believer in her art.