Low-level sorc, and a fighter/mage

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Two unrelated questions

1) If you're a sorcerer, what 1st-level spells should you pick? Specifically for offensive spells?

Is Shocking Grasp worth it? Has entering melee to use it been a problem?
Is Color Spray worth it? Unlike Burning Hands, it may fail to have an effect, but it is more powerful (IMO).

Has the low AC and hp been a real problem, and were you able to solve it? What if you've been surprised?

2) For successful fighter/mages, what's the best overall strategy?

Did you try to maximize your attack bonus? Damage? AC? Is it better to use buffs, or just True Strike? Is taking Greater Magic Weapon worth it, or are you just wasting a spell slot for the day?

What sort of non-buff spells did you pick? Polymorph Other? Hold Monster? Direct Damage?

What do you do if you're surprised? Or de-buffed?

Lastly, what's the best type of wand to use?

Thanks in advance

 

[JChung2003]

Low-level sorcerers/wizards aren't that powerful offensively, but they have a nice bag of tricks for defense and escape.

Shocking Grasp is fine as long as you cast it before entering into melee range. Otherwise you risk an attack of opportunity while casting the spell. Cast it, hold the charge, and then touch.

Color Spray is nice, but it has limitations: it doesn't affect some creatures at all: specifically, undead and sightless creatures. Burning Hands is nice because not only does it do at least some damage (except against targets with Evasion); it also ignites flammable materials on your opponents. It's not useful against monsters with the appropriate energy resistance, of course. Both spells suffer from the limit of affecting all targets, friend or foe, within their areas of effect.

Mage Armor is excellent AC (+4 armor, no arcane penalty) for 1 hour/level. There's no reason not to have this up for combat situations, especially for low-level encounters where Dispel Magic likely won't be a problem. Shield is good as well (+7 AC, +3 Reflex) but doesn't last very long.

Low HP is your main vulnerability so always be sure to take any cover and concealment you can get, including those beefy fighters types you call your friends. Don't be a sitting duck! Intelligent opponents with ranged weapons usually target casters first, because they're easier to take out, but they usually don't hit what they can't see.

 

[apsuman]

1)

For offense, choose the disrupt undead cantip. Too many spells do not effect undead. You need this for backup if nothing else.

Magic Missle is really too good not to know.

True Strike is a must have, imho. It and a crossbow are your best friends at low levels.

Shocking Grasp is not a bad spell but not as good as magic missle. Entering melee can be made better with a few things. First, a high constitution will give you enough HP esp. at low levels to be an melee equal to a rogue or possibly a cleric. Knowing endurance also helps this. All the armor bonuses also help, mage armor, shield, etc. Haste is also a must have, that extra partial action is really really nice. Finally I will add spectral hand is a good spell if you want to deliver those touch attacks.

g!

 

[AuraSeer]

Two unrelated questions

1) If you're a sorcerer, what 1st-level spells should you pick? Specifically for offensive spells?

In general, pick spells that increase in power as you advance. That way, they still have a chance of being effective later in your career.

For instance, sorcerers should avoid taking Sleep. It's great at 1st level, but it doesn't improve, and it can never affect anything with 5 or more HD. By the time you reach 4th level or so, you'll be lucky if it affects one enemy per casting; much above that, and it becomes entirely useless.

Magic Missile is one of the best Sorc spells. It's a ranged attack, which keeps you out of melee. It scales up well, so it remains useful later in life. And it always hits, which is an important consideration because of your low BAB.

Is Shocking Grasp worth it? Has entering melee to use it been a problem?

I don't like this spell, especially at low levels, but that may be just my personal bias against touch attacks. A starting sorcerer has so few hit points, he can be dropped by a single hit. IMO you're better off staying back; firing a crossbow does nearly as much damage as that spell.

Has the low AC and hp been a real problem, and were you able to solve it? What if you've been surprised?

At low levels, yes, low AC and hp are a problem. Stay out of melee if at all possible. If you're surprised, there's not much you can do but hope you survive the surprise round.

The Shield spell can do a lot to alleviate the AC problem, but it uses up a spell slot and has fairly short duration. If you try to cast it in every combat, you won't have any slots left for offensive spells.

As you advance, AC will become less of a problem. You'll have access to magic items, like Bracers of Armor and Rings of Protection. Also, since you'll have more spell slots, you will be able to spare some for defensive casting.

I currently play the sorcerer in a 13th-level party. Compared to the other PCs, he has the lowest hp and his AC is below average. But when serious combat begins, he can cast Haste and Shield for a total AC bonus of +11 to AC, giving him the highest in the party.

The problem of low hp never really gets better. High AC can partially compensate, but it doesn't help against area spells or most other damaging magic. It's a good idea to keep some healing potions on hand, and stya on good terms with the party cleric.

2) For successful fighter/mages, what's the best overall strategy?

Did you try to maximize your attack bonus? Damage? AC? Is it better to use buffs, or just True Strike? Is taking Greater Magic Weapon worth it, or are you just wasting a spell slot for the day?

True Strike is often less useful than you'd expect. First off, you need to expend an action to cast it, so you lose one round worth of attacks. Second, it only affects one attack roll, which means it's a bit less useful for fighter-types who get iterative attacks.

TS is good when you're about to use up a limited-use item or ability, like an Arrow of Slaying, or a paladin's Smite Evil power. It's also useful when you're fighting a very-high-AC monster, whom you can't otherwise hit. In most other situations, you're better off just taking another round of attacks.

Greater Magic Weapon is wonderful if you plan to have lots of caster levels, because the effective bonus goes up so high. If you plan to be mostly fighter with just a sprinkling of mageness, GMW is far less exciting.

 

[Zaruthustran]

1) If you're a sorcerer, what 1st-level spells should you pick? Specifically for offensive spells?

Magic Missile, because it's always useful and it always hits. Even if your foe is at extreme range, with 9/10s cover, you'll nail him with a MM.

But everyone takes MM. It's boring.

So, I'd go with something more interesting, like the first level illusion spell: Silent Image. This spell is perfect for sorcerers, what with their many spells per day. I mean, +7 AC from Shield is nice, but it's even nicer to just put up an (illusionary) wall in front of you. Poof! 100% concealment.

Or, you can go the Necro route. Multiple Rays of Enfeeblement can really ruin a melee fighter's day. Chill Touch is a decent damage spell (especially once your familiar can deliver touch spells for you). If you go the Necro route be sure to get Spell Focus.

Is Shocking Grasp worth it? Has entering melee to use it been a problem?
Is Color Spray worth it? Unlike Burning Hands, it may fail to have an effect, but it is more powerful (IMO).

Shocking Grasp is also useful, if you also take Mage Armor, Shield, or some other spell to keep yourself alive once you've delivered your touch spell. It's also perfect for familiar delivery.

Color Spray is extremely effective at low level. And at high level, in certain situations--like when that 15th level evil fighter is mounted on a normal 2 hd warhorse, or when you want to incapacitate but not kill low level guards/Good people.

2) For successful fighter/mages, what's the best overall strategy?

There are many successful strategies. The (extremely successful) strategy my F1/Wiz8 character pursued was taking Quickdraw, Craft Wand, and fighting in full plate armor with a buckler and a reach weapon. He'd buff before combat, keep combat spells in wands, and memorize defense and common utility spells like Rope Trick, Endure Elements, and Alarm. Quickdraw wands. Keep rare utility spells (like Knock, Jump, Reduce, etc.) on scrolls.

Did you try to maximize your attack bonus? Damage? AC? Is it better to use buffs, or just True Strike? Is taking Greater Magic Weapon worth it, or are you just wasting a spell slot for the day?

I maximized defense (full plate + buckler, Improved Init, Endure Elements) and access to spells (wands). True Strike is good if you combo it with Power Attack, but otherwise MM is better. GMW is a terrific spell for archers.

What do you do if you're surprised? Or de-buffed?

I wore the best armor I could (magic mithral full plate). You get your full armor bonus during surprise rounds and that +8 armor bonus can't be de-buffed. Use your familiar to scout out ambushes, keep scrolls of See Invisibility handy, don't rely on buffs.

Lastly, what's the best type of wand to use?

Haste. But also acquire/make wands of Dispel Magic, MM, and a good evocation spell like Fireball.

-z

 

[Christian]

Or, you can go the Necro route. Multiple Rays of Enfeeblement can really ruin a melee fighter's day.

Just an FYI: RoE inflicts an enhancement penalty to Strength rather than Strength damage. Because of this, its effects do not stack. Only the highest-rolled of the currently active Rays affect the target's Strength score.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

1. Shocking grasp isn't really worth it. The damage isn't worth the risk of mellee, and touch atacks are far from guaranteed for a wiz/sor. Color spray is nice for a wizard, but I wouldn't take it as a Sor, the level caps knock out its usefullness too quickly, burning hands is fun and quasi worth it for your low level attack spell. Magic missile just flatly reigns supreme, being diffrent is nice but it just is the best 1st level attack spell.

Mage amor is one i know a ton of sorcerers swear buy, but me i just wind it until I can afford some bracers of armor.(expeditious retreat and jump fall here as well for me I'll just buy the boots of cheat and be done with it)

Shield spell rocks though(I generally make it persistent at higher levels).

Tensers floating disk has great utility(and since I strap a tower shield too it fairly good defense value as well.)

Basically My 1st levl list is shield, magic missile, endure elements(24 hours long) and then utility spells.

2nd level list is pure utility spells(invis is an always take i has a great duration and you can easily bust it for the whole party soon).

3rd level haste, fly, and one attack spell(either fireball or slow), and then utility.

4th imporved invis, enervation, and then go pick

5th on i'm too lazy too continue.

Basic concept ofr me is always take a defense and offense every other level, and load up on utility.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Magic Missle is really too good not to know.

At low-level, but not at first level

So, I'd go with something more interesting, like the first level illusion spell: Silent Image. This spell is perfect for sorcerers, what with their many spells per day. I mean, +7 AC from Shield is nice, but it's even nicer to just put up an (illusionary) wall in front of you. Poof! 100% concealment.

Pure genius! One catch... don't you have to Concentrate to keep it up?

Quickdraw wands.

You can do that?

I maximized defense (full plate + buckler, Improved Init, Endure Elements) and access to spells (wands).

Thanks for the advice. What do you do if you fight an elder xorn (CR 8, attack bonus +21, Tremorsense)? Even Mirror Image or Displacement won't help me out here.

I guess I have another question: do your sorcs run out of spells at low level? It seems to me that if you can cast 4 spells per day, and you go through four encounters, that you'll definitely run out of spells. I've played sorcs, but not from 1st-level before.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Just an FYI: RoE inflicts an enhancement penalty to Strength rather than Strength damage. Because of this, its effects do not stack. Only the highest-rolled of the currently active Rays affect the target's Strength score.

Doh. Thanks for specifying that, Christian. I've never cast that spell in 3e, just read the shorty description on the spell lists.

-Minor thread hijack-
So, what happens if a peson boosted with Bull's Strength gets hit by a RoE? Bull's Strength is an enhancement bonus, RoE is also an enhancement (a negative enhancement, but still an enhancement). Enhancements can't stack. So... what happens?

 

[Victim]

Color Spray isn't that bad for a sorcerer. It about as good as sleep at low levels, which is great because sleep and color spray are generally good ways to win low level encounters - it doesn't do you much good to have the best spells for an 18th level sor if you die at first level.

Also, unlike sleep, there's no HD cap on color spray. Certainly the spell is reduced in effectiveness against high HD opponents, but you can still stun them. If you think you can beat the enemy's Will save most of the time, you might be better off going for a stun lock on a fighter type, especially if you outnumber the enemy or if a rogue can attack the target.

Finally, non damaging spells that are excellent at taking out weak people still have there use at higher levels. You might want to KO some guards so you can break into a house or something.