Low Magic Campaigns?

[3catcircus]

Sooo........what you mean is, you want your setting to include a little magic, but have that magic be completely irrelevant, impotent, and a total waste of lots of time and money and effort on the spellcaster's part for no gain? If magic is going to be rare and expensive, it should at least be somewhat worthwhile (wasting a lot of time and effort to summon a dire rat would suck).

Only if the dire rat was weak compared to the baddies thrown at the PCs...

Ways to make the game low-magic while not really changing many things at all.

1. Revamp random treasure. At low levels, a masterwork item should be a *big* deal. A templated weapon (Feycraft, etc. from DMG II) should be a *very* big deal. Use alchemical items more than low-powered items (potions and scrolls) but do not give out a lot of permanent buff items.

2. Use the MMS:WE rules to calculate town-dwellers. This ensures that the chances of a high-powered spellcaster or item crafter existing in town is completely random and less likely.

3. Do not allow you players to guilt you into allowing "every town has a magic shop and every magic shop has every magic item in all of the books in it." Likewise, do not allow them to find an NPC who will *create* the item for them unless it is a fair trade - like the PCs getting the raw materials. They want an adamantine weapon, let *them* go find the metal fot it, which should be arduous at best. This *also* has the added benefit of many many different plot hooks hanging out there for them to explore.

4. Go to a silver standard for everything except magic items (i.e. that 7 gp sword is really 7 sp, while the mw sword is 307 sp). Better yet, go the historical £sd route, where 12 pence = 1 shilling and 20 shillings = 1 pound. Simply assume that copper pieces = a farthing (1/4 penny), silver pieces are pence, gold pieces are shillings (made of silver), and the platinum piece is actual a gold sovereign worth 1 £. What this does is *also* change how much the coins weigh, since 1 £ is actually 1 troy pound (~ 12 ounces) worth of silver, so that 1 penny weighs about .05 ozt (about 292 pence per 16 oz. pound, about 24 shillings per pound, and the gold sovereigns weigh about .5 ozt each, so about 30 sovereign coins per 16 oz. pound).

5. ENFORCE ENCUMBRANCE. ENFORCE ENCUMBRANCE. ENFORCE ENCUMBRANCE. Spend some time figuring out how much (weight and volume) that backpack holds and enforce it. Too many times, the players are running around with 12 magic swords just because their buffed STR score allows them to carry them. HOW are they carrying them when they only have two hands and the backpack is too short to carry them? In the bag of holding? Make sure that it takes the appropriate amount of time to get *that* out of the backpack *and* get the desired sword out of it - easier said than done during a hectic combat.

6. Get Magic Item Compendium. It does a great job of enforcing the concept of magic items that have a limited duration and a limited number of uses per day... Great for ensuring that the PCs use them only during major battles and not as a way to cheese out of moderately challenging encounters.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

My picks:

Rules Heavy:
Iron Heroes (same power curve as 3E, but w/o all the magic)

Rules Heavy/Medium:
Black Company (really cool grim & gritty setting, too)

Rules Medium:
True 20 (neat system, very flexible)

Rules Light:
Castles & Crusades (similar to old-school AD&D -- maybe add a spell level cap)

Another option would be a system without levels; the "magic curve" is usually less important. I like Lejendary Adventure's skill bundle approach. Something like Chaosium's Stormbringer could work for this, too. Both those systems have magic in them, but you could drop or marginalize those elements without a significant impact on "balance," etc.

 

[molonel]

On the other hand, the Shek P’var (mage) character in my Hârn campaign can now cast eleven spells. It’s taken years of research, and three of the spells were invented by the character. Only one spell can do physical damage. Summoning any type of creature is impossible. The most used spell is a light spell which lasts for over 90 minutes, and what’s more the mage rarely passes out while casting the spell. It’s all relative. If the players are having fun, and there’s a genuine sense of achievement when hard work and study pay off, it ain’t wrong. It might not be what you’re looking for, but that doesn’t mean that it sucks.

That's nothing. In my Invalid d20 campaign, all of the characters start as paralytics, or elderly wheelchair-bound arthritic dyspeptics. During the last session, one of the characters actually managed to empty his bedpan single-handedly. It required the use of Action Points, but the sense of accomplishment that washed over the players was almost tangible.



I'm kidding, of course. If the players and the GM are all having fun, then whatever blows your hair back.

But I think low magic, grim and gritty campaigns are awfully romanticized, sometimes. Most people don't go into fantasy games to play Joe Average, 1st level commoner.

 

[Corvus69]

But I think low magic, grim and gritty campaigns are awfully romanticized, sometimes. Most people don't go into fantasy games to play Joe Average, 1st level commoner.

yeah that's why is DnD so popular.

btw I would not call anyone from my gaming groups Joe Average. Their characters are just too much interesting for that. And it doesnt matter that they dont have bags full of magic items and dont slay monsters on daily basis

and I just got bored of this DnD high fantasy style a long time ago.

but each to their own.

 

[Remathilis]

That's nothing. In my Invalid d20 campaign, all of the characters start as paralytics, or elderly wheelchair-bound arthritic dyspeptics. During the last session, one of the characters actually managed to empty his bedpan single-handedly. It required the use of Action Points, but the sense of accomplishment that washed over the players was almost tangible.



I'm kidding, of course. If the players and the GM are all having fun, then whatever blows your hair back.

But I think low magic, grim and gritty campaigns are awfully romanticized, sometimes. Most people don't go into fantasy games to play Joe Average, 1st level commoner.

Thats almost Sig Worthy!

I dunno. I play a completely normal human being incapable of winning a melee fight, casting a single spell, avoiding whirling blades of death, or lasting 5 minutes in a dungeon. I'd like to be able to do that in game. I'd rather be a comic book superhero on Saturday than some dude who runs away from wolves. YMMV.

 

[Warbringer]

As commented on these boards several times, a really easy implemenatation is every other level must be a non-spellcaster level. Even a 20th level character only casts 5th level spells!

Another idea, is 'spellcasting' is gone as we know it, but items remain. Thus a spellcaster takes his power form making, then using items, rather than 'spells'. The cost of items creates it's own resource management tool. My gut feeling is that you end up with a medieval feel by default. (in this lose the distinction between arcane and divine)

 

[Emirikol]

You can run low magic games with the typical D&D treasure values and nearly no houserules at all.

Those are pretty much what we've done for years. You get a great low magic feel without having to drop change on a new system (which can be both financially draining on players as well as make it difficult, sometimes, to find/keep players).

Have you asked your players their feelings yet about your choice to run a lower magic game?
Many players aren't ready to move from standard D&D. If you want to prepare them for a move, OVERDO the D&Disms until they're just plain sick of them. Sometimes the D&Disms need to run their course before a player can be accepting of a new idea.

Now the D&Disms..I'll leave that up to you to figure out what those are

jh



..

 

[bolen]

How about Mongoose's Conan. The editing has a bit to be desired but it is a good game

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

Molonel

That’s certainly one viewpoint.

On the other hand, the Shek P’var (mage) character in my Hârn campaign can now cast eleven spells. It’s taken years of research, and three of the spells were invented by the character. Only one spell can do physical damage. Summoning any type of creature is impossible. The most used spell is a light spell which lasts for over 90 minutes, and what’s more the mage rarely passes out while casting the spell. It’s all relative. If the players are having fun, and there’s a genuine sense of achievement when hard work and study pay off, it ain’t wrong. It might not be what you’re looking for, but that doesn’t mean that it sucks.

I thought that I’d embolden part of the post you quoted. Because this

That's nothing. In my Invalid d20 campaign, all of the characters start as paralytics, or elderly wheelchair-bound arthritic dyspeptics. During the last session, one of the characters actually managed to empty his bedpan single-handedly. It required the use of Action Points, but the sense of accomplishment that washed over the players was almost tangible.

even disguised with a is crude and insulting. Fortunately for you, I’m not an elderly wheelchair-bound arthritic dyspeptic. I’ve seen game fashions, and gamers come and go over the years, however, I don’t insult other peoples campaign choices.

I'm kidding, of course. If the players and the GM are all having fun, then whatever blows your hair back.

But I think low magic, grim and gritty campaigns are awfully romanticized, sometimes. Most people don't go into fantasy games to play Joe Average, 1st level commoner.

Of course you’re kidding. But why? Is it some insecurity on your part, that you won’t allow someone to post about an alternative to your preferred style of play?

I’m happy enough with my campaign. My players, don’t complain, at least no more often than players do. They tell tales of their (admittedly minor) victories.

Personally, I don’t like the term Joe Average, and as the rules I use aren’t level based (I won’t bore you, suffice it to say that I haven’t played a level based game for over ten years) then the level comparison is invalid.

I prefer to use the term ‘ordinary people in extraordinary situations.' Have you ever played Call of Cthulhu? In my opinion it’s a magnificent game. There’s a huge amount of fun to be had from a game which is not ‘balanced,’ where the characters could die, not from ‘bad dice rolls’ but from poor role playing, like simply forgetting how much danger they are in. Check out some of the free stuff (adventures and background) at www.Lythia.com and if you don’t like it by all means say: 'it’s not for me,' and explain why. But don’t condemn my gaming style out of hand.

 

[Corvus69]

ordinary people in extraordinary situations

this is the exact term I use to describe my game

How about Mongoose's Conan

Conan is a fine game. its low magic but maybe too heroic for my preference. But if I didnt play in Warhammer Old World I would play in Conan age.