Manyshot Feat calculations?

[scipio]

I strongly suspect that I misused the Manyshot feat with an NPC arcane archer in a recent adventure. Here's my take of the feat, used in conjunction with rapid shot, far shot, a distance composite long-bow, and a specialized ranger6/sorceror1/arcane archer 2.

The character's full attack without any feat use, after all modifiers is +19/+15 (BAB+8, bow +2, arrows+1, dex +7, weapon focus+1). A rapid shot would be 17/17/12. A distance long bow has a doubled range increment = 200 feet. Far shot with this weapon gives a range increment of 300 feet. Here's where I'm confused, would a manyshot be +15 (2 arrows)/+15 (2 arrows)/+10 (2 arrows) at a range of 90 feet (double 30 ft, plus 1.5X = 90ft), which seems nigh unto broken, or is it simply 1 attack at +15 (2 arrows) at 30 feet, which is rather puny? Or, is it, as I suspect, somewhere between? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[fafhrd]

The last (puny) option is correct. When presented as an alternative to a full(rapid shot) attack manyshot is suboptimal. It is useful when you're locked into a standard action context(such as when you are readying an action or in a surprise round).

 

[scipio]

Hmm, given that, I think I may at least house-rule that a move equivalent action can be taken with a manyshot if the character also has rapid shot. There should be some stacking of the benefits from these feats, IMO. I suppose I've been playing too much Return of the King on the PS2, since Legolas can fire off doubled arrows at a ridiculous clip.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Hmm, given that, I think I may at least house-rule that a move equivalent action can be taken with a manyshot if the character also has rapid shot.

That's not a house rule, that's the way Manyshot works ... It's a standard action, which means you have a move action remaining after you complete it.

EDIT:

As for how Manyshot actually works:

BAB+8, bow +2, arrows+1, dex +7, weapon focus+1

Note that in 3.5, bonuses from a bow and bonuses from an arrow no longer stack; you get whichever is best. So, currently, your player is attacking at:

+8 +2 +7 +1 = +18 / +13

Now, on his turn, he can use a Full-Round Action to attack at +18 / +13, or he could use a Full Round Action and Rapid Shot and attack at +16 / +16 / +11 (which is almost always a better idea) at whatever range.

Alternatively, he can use the Manyshot Feat. This is a Standard action (and so only takes up ~1/2 of his turn) and allows him to attack one target within 30' at +15 (two arrows)*, and still have a move action left.

Depending on the circumstances, one option or the other will likely be better.

* - Normally, this would be at +14, due to the -4 penalty Manyshot applies, but because the target must also be within 30', his Point Blank Shot feat applies.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Patryn of Elvenshae's reply looks correct. The bow or farshot does not extend the 30' restriction on manyshot or point blank shot.

 

[scipio]

Ah, thanks. That's much clearer. Given the relative power between 2-weapon fighting and archery, I'm no longer surprised that no ranger I've ever seen has gone down the ranged weapon route.

 

[jerichothebard]

That's not a house rule, that's the way Manyshot works ... It's a standard action, which means you have a move action remaining after you complete it.

Exactly - that's actually the point of Manyshot - that you can move and still fire more than one arrow. It's not as powerful as Rapid shot, but allows for more versatility.

And as for relative power level, it's just that - relative. If you're playing in a campaign where the enemy is engaged at any distance whatsoever, then ranged weapons become much more useful. Remember that 110 feet for a composite bow is only the first range increment - they can shoot out to 10 range increments. With a bow of distance and far shot, that's up to half a mile... How many rounds would it take for you to cover half a mile of distance? Or even, how many rounds would it take CARL LEWIS to cover half a mile of distance? That's a whole lotta shootin' goin' on.

jtb

 

[green slime]

Exactly - that's actually the point of Manyshot - that you can move and still fire more than one arrow. It's not as powerful as Rapid shot, but allows for more versatility.

And as for relative power level, it's just that - relative. If you're playing in a campaign where the enemy is engaged at any distance whatsoever, then ranged weapons become much more useful. Remember that 110 feet for a composite bow is only the first range increment - they can shoot out to 10 range increments. With a bow of distance and far shot, that's up to half a mile... How many rounds would it take for you to cover half a mile of distance? Or even, how many rounds would it take CARL LEWIS to cover half a mile of distance? That's a whole lotta shootin' goin' on.

jtb

Considering Carl Lewis is almost geriatric these days, and has incredible back pains, and the fact that he was a short sprinter when in his prime (not a middle distance runner, which half a mile is), it would take him quite some time.

The best runners today would take 17 to 18 rounds. On a track. With spiked shoes. On their best day.

Of course, a 9th level wizard can dimension door that distance in an instant (or 6 seconds, as time apparently moves in groups of 6 seconds)

 

[dagger]

Manyshot could stack very well with the Scouts precision damage special ability.....

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Except, of course, that precision damage applies only to the first arrow of the bunch.