D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

You could pretend you're a warlock and cast shield with your highest level spell slot...

there we go... but even that will most likely stop a round of attacks form hitting me

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

How do you get past the fact that there’s a 33% chance you won’t be able to cast it again?

stop trying to get around draw backs on altering reality

 

[Gammadoodler]

You could pretend you're a warlock and cast shield with your highest level spell slot...

And here I was looking at fog cloud.

 

[TheSword]

stop trying to get around draw backs on altering reality

Sorry I’m probably not making myself clear. You only get to do it a couple of times EVER. How is that an ability that invalidates the fighter? How can you value an ability so limited?

 

[TheSword]

wish is the biggest baddest abality in the game. It was just me being amazed at you trying to down play a 9th level slot...

heck lets really 'waste' a 9th level slot and up cast fireball is that 13 or 14d6?

if you get 3 targets and 2 save for half and 1 doesn't with 13d6 that is 13-78 pr about 46 damage to 1 and 46 split between the other two... for 92 damage.

a fighter with 4 attacks a +3 weapon and hitting 75% of the time with a d10 weapon will be doing 1d10+8 so 14 x.75 so about 11 per swing so about 44 per round so that is more then 2 rounds of a fighter fighting... and that is if not the worst one of the worst ways to use a 9th level slot (and it might be 1d6 more)

Ok so that makes more sense now. Now I see how you view a fighters abilities I can see you are substantially unerestimating what martial character can do at 17th level. By several factors. It’s explaining a lot.

You should check out some of @tetrasodium ’s posts on the subject. It will be an eye opener.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

Sorry I’m probably not making myself clear. You only get to do it a couple of times EVER.

and doing it once is a hugh game changer... lets write more in here from the text
"Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again if you suffer this stress."
so you need to do something big with it THEN you have to not just rest but keep going (cause that reality warping wasn't enought) then you have a 1/3 chance of not being able to cast wish again, in this DISASTER situation you can only cast time stop meter swarm power word kill or shape change with your 9th level slot going forward... or maybe you will upcast magic missle.
You don't lose your 9th level slot you get that back.

meanwhile if you needed that altering of reality, what was the fighter or rogue or barbarian going to do?

How is that an ability that invalidates the fighter? How can you value an ability so limited?

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

Ok so that makes more sense now. Now I see how you view a fighters abilities I can see you are substantially unerestimating what martial character can do at 17th level. By several factors. It’s explaining a lot.

You should check out some of @tetrasodium ’s posts on the subject. It will be an eye opener.

WHat am I underestimating... I didn't totaly maximize min/max the damage?

 

[TheSword]

and doing it once is a hugh game changer... lets write more in here from the text
"Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again if you suffer this stress."
so you need to do something big with it THEN you have to not just rest but keep going (cause that reality warping wasn't enought) then you have a 1/3 chance of not being able to cast wish again, in this DISASTER situation you can only cast time stop meter swarm power word kill or shape change with your 9th level slot going forward... or maybe you will upcast magic missle.
You don't lose your 9th level slot you get that back.

meanwhile if you needed that altering of reality, what was the fighter or rogue or barbarian going to do?

Nothing in the game does need that altering of reality? If your DM is designing adventures that require a wish spell then get a new DM. It’s just bad writing.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Ennhh. IIRC Liam was usually pretty good about that stuff. Laura not so much.

Ape was generally more for the HP than attack. I don't actually remember him using it to scout.

I menat he used it to turn other characters into something else to scout. Sorry for the confusion.

Think it got used to for him to be a big flying thing for transport quite a bit. As a debuff, I think he was more of a "I turn it into a cow" type of caster than a "I turn it into a kitty cat" type.

Entirely possible I'm misremembering though.

As they played, the whole group progressively turned enemies into beefier things to fit the rules rather than the trope. It wasn't Caleb, but they started with Umber Hulks to snails and went up from there.

Polymorph (as usual) needs to go back to formula. There are ways to make a good debuff that turns the target into something small and harmless without encouraging the DM to suddenly make up some environmental damage to get them back in the game, and there should be a way to shapeshifter battle without making the character something other than themselves mentally.

See, my objective is to make sure everyone is having fun. That includes improving things for casters. It's just that they need less help because they have a team of designers and DMs all in their corner looking to cater to them. And fighters have a bunch of people on message boards losing hope.

 

[TheSword]

WHat am I underestimating... I didn't totaly maximize min/max the damage?

You didn’t include anything other than the base ability score, 3 base attacks and the magic weapon. Like anything else? Have you ever played a fighter of any level?