D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[HammerMan]

Double digit level. Even 11th. And no, I do not buy that fighters are dealing that much damage. There's just no way they can. At best, the absolute best, a fighter can do would be a 2d6 weapon, with something like GWF and a 20 Strength. That's as good as it gets. That's 27 damage per hit. Oh, wait, sorry, add another d8 for Battlemaster maneuvers. So, 35 damage on a hit is the absolute top.

@GMforPowergamers did the math of non optimized 9th or 10th level caster and non caster (I think it was fighter and rouge wizard and warlock) and the fighter was slightly ahead but not massively.

 

[HammerMan]

I think the question is backwards.

Should Roland be able to pick up a dropped sword of a random footman and kill the Avatar of Bane with it? No.

I say yes.

I will do you one better
Riddick should correct the demon “I’m not going to kill you with my soul cup, it’s a tea cup”

Should Roland naturally attract a legendary sword like Durendal and always find one at level 12? Yes.

I am fine with this.

Should Roland be able to pick up a dropped sword of a random footman, train with it, and the sword absorb some of Roland's power over time to become a basic magic sword that can kill the Avatar of Bane? Yes.

Again I am fine with it getting magic but I don’t see it needing it.

 

[CreamCloud0]

That is an interesting idea

i guess if short rests seem to be getting kicked then players won't exactly be using them for healing will they, plus there's some inherent scalling auto-intergrated into there with the more martial classes with bigger hit die getting better maneuvre dice sizes.

 

[HammerMan]

People like playing tough, fast, or tough and fast folks who are very good at fighting with weapons. Clearly many players don’t feel like they need a killing blow special ability to feel effective and fun. Sorry. It’s just not a priority and I think you’re over complicating it.

Funny. This is why my group has not seen anyone take 5 levels or more of fighter in years

 

[HammerMan]

Ok but that second level scorching ray or magic missile isn’t really pulling its weight at level 10.

Good thing you can use your second level slot to hold person or up cast Tasha laugh or even just to shield to negate damage and have 5th 4th and 3rd level slots. 1 more level and your at will could be as good as some 2nd level spells.

 

[nevin]

They gave wizards at will damage spells. They can now go all day with them.

After level 5 or 6 they can use slots in mst encounters. It isn’t all day but for most adventure days it might as well be.

not only that the concept of adventuring day means most mid to high level wizards rarely use a large portion of their spell's.

 

[Minigiant]

Riddick should correct the demon “I’m not going to kill you with my soul cup, it’s a tea cup”

A demon, sure.
The Avatar of Bane, no.

 

[HammerMan]

A demon, sure.
The Avatar of Bane, no.

Yes an avatar of bane

 

[Minigiant]

Yes an avatar of bane

No at least in D&D.

It's a long standing trope of D&D that gods and things of divinity can't be killed by mortal nonmagical weapons. This usually is extended to harming them. And it often extends to greater nondivine patron level threats like greater fiends, fey, and other outer entities.

Thisis due to the myths where foes need certain levels of magic to be killed.

This created the game loop of needing to quest for magic items/spells before adventuring in the monster's home. Extending the campaign.

Removing it is cool but it wont be accepted by the majority of fans. Even newer ones. Nor is it easier to run.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

D&D already has a rewards problem.
Gold is core useless.
Residuum doesn't exist.

Okay, if we are discussing changes to the game, those are good candidates.

Removing magic items from treasure actively make the game worse. It might be cooler but D&D is mostly a rewards game and magic items are the only reward that works.

I’ve never seen anyone play 5e D&D as a “loot game”. Treasure is nice, but there are a ton of other rewards, and most group I’ve seen aren’t really here for the rewards.

D&D can be played as a narratives game but the majority of DMs aren't experienced, skilled, or able to do that.

I’d need evidence to take this claim seriously.

Ok but that second level scorching ray or magic missile isn’t really pulling its weight at level 10.

Sure it is, for its spell level. Lower spell slots aren’t used to get the same effect as higher slots. You throw magic Missile when you’re pretty sure you can end the last two enemies with one action by casting it, and you’re not trying to burn a level 4 or 5 slot on it.

A demon, sure.
The Avatar of Bane, no.

Nah Bane too.