D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

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The truth is the magic boots, magic gloves, and magic sword are class features in name only.

They are stand in to keep the fighter simple.

The harsh truth is the fighter, ranger, paladin, monk, and barbarian all should have Unarmed Movement, Unarmed Strike, and Inherent AC/Damage bonus columns on their class tables.

The Traditional Barbarian or Fighter of Old School is the Hulk with magic gloves, boots, belt,helmet, arrmor, and weapon.. The game really should just get on with getting to the end point without the Christmas tree. Few people like the Christmas tree.
 

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I find it interesting that these discussions pretty much never even have a passing mention of the Monk.

Despite that the monk can run almost 200ft up a wall, almost always nullify terminal fall damage, wade through a poison lake or run over it if they want to, survive indefinitely without food or water, and naturally cover a lot of the weaknesses martials have during combat.

And, of course, all of that is the base class.
Yes but you see, the monk utilities Ki to justify getting to do those things, something they gained from training their bodies and skills in certain martial styles, this is entirely different from how the fighter also trains their body and is skilled in martial styles...somehow, and they must therefore be limited to only the most basic of real world human capabilities and physics unlike the monk
 




I wonder if we renamed superiority dice to focus dice, and give the base fighter focus dice that it can use to add to any saving throw or attack roll or ability check in a proficient skill, or add to damage when you hit. Then the BM gets more of them and more ways to use them.
 

Edit: removed needless trolling.

In general, I'm loathe to see martials laden with a set of narrative requirements beyond what's needed for a rough approximation of class balance. So that means, no required magic anything.

And I don't see a need for significant departures from existing game design to accomplish the goal of 'more cool stuff for martials to do'. All I really think that's needed is in the class description sections, designers include cool impactful things that martials can do at higher levels. These could be justified with the same level of effort that went into action surge and second wind (barely any).
Yep. This is why legendary actions and resistance were my first step on making the fighter more epic at later levels.
That said, it shouldn't be lost that, while I disagree with some of the methods or design requirements other posters like Emberash and Minigiant have come to, I appreciate that they are allies in the 'martials should be able to do cool stuff too' camp
True
I find it interesting that these discussions pretty much never even have a passing mention of the Monk.

Despite that the monk can run almost 200ft up a wall, almost always nullify terminal fall damage, wade through a poison lake or run over it if they want to, survive indefinitely without food or water, and naturally cover a lot of the weaknesses martials have during combat.

And, of course, all of that is the base class.
Yeah tbh while I do want different stuff from the fighter, as I’ve developed a master of arms with no good name as yet, it’s becoming more and more clear that…the fighter isn’t needed, unless it’s to be the super-tough Jack of all trades warrior.

So, give them the ability to add a scaling die that they have equal to their fighter level to a check they aren’t proficient in, or just give them Jack of all trades because Bards shouldn’t be that anyway, and give them multiple fighting styles and the ability to switch between them as a bonus action.

And give them a d4 on unarmed strikes. It’s absurd that the “tough and dependable warrior character” can’t punch effectively without taking a special fighting style.

Or yeet them, and give their stuff to the other martial/semi-martial classes.
 

This is a big point though.
The only major "popular" fiction that features it is Marvel comics. .

You seem to be missing Star Wars, Star Trek and any number of Pulp, Planetary Romance and Weird Science based fiction. Not to mention the entirety of 80s cinematic/rule of coool
 

You can find just as many examples of "heroes who use whatever weapon they come across" all the way from John Carter to John Wick, as you can "heroes who use special gear".

Greek Mythology gives us examples of both- Odysseus uses his wits far more often than any specialized tool, but Perseus basically has nothing but divine gifts. Hercules straddles the line, since he kills many things with just godly might, but also picks up the skin of the Nemean Lion and Hydra's Blood Poison.

At the end of the day, neither approach invalidates the others, it has to do with your abilities and the threats you face. No one is saying a hero can't be awesome when armed with the jawbone of a donkey. But some heroes face challenges more dangerous than even 1,000 Philistines.

In this case, they need a force multiplier of some kind, either a divine bloodline, secret techniques gleaned after training from Hell, or, as D&D popularized from the very beginning, magical swag.

It doesn't matter which approach you take, as long as you acknowledge that the game is built to progress beyond low fantasy as levels improve, and everyone needs some kind of special edge to go beyond mortal limits. Either use magic items, or, at set points, grant players Epic Boons to replicate their benefits.

Or design all classes to progress as the game does, starting as mortal heroes, and eventually becoming demigods. It strikes me as odd that D&D used to do these things quite well. Regular D&D eventually leads to Immortal tier play. 4e noted the distinction between Heroic, Paragon, and Epic play, and gave players abilities to match. Several editions took a stab at epic level play as well, from the madness of 100th level characters in H4, The Throne of Bloodstone, to special high level campaigning supplements.

But somehow now this sort of thing doesn't "feel like D&D" to some people, which is truly bizarre. There's this section of the fanbase who want to focus on low-level play, but rather than say "this game will not advance beyond level 6", they want to go all the way to the highest levels with nothing but larger numbers and relegate any ability beyond what a "guy at the gym" cannot do to explicitly mystical classes.

Which just gives those classes a larger slice of the pie.

Also, when it comes to not wanting heroes to be "fantastic", I just want to point out that just about any race other than Human is automatically "fantastic". Why should an Elven, Warforged, or Aasimar Fighter be unable to perform fantastic feats, exactly? Even Legolas has preternatural abilities on full display in the Lord of the Rings movies, and he's a wood elf with apparently no special powers of magic or healing! What a slacker!
 
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D&D is afraid to categorize the supernatural.

However past level 10 or so, every challenge that is still a challenge in every edition is supernatural and beyond the defeat of nature.

So every PC level 11 either
  1. Should become supernatural
  2. Have access to supernatural features like spells or infusions
  3. Have access to supernatural external items
or
  1. Know they will not have to deal with supernatural challenges often at all (low magic world)
The core issue is segments of the D&D fans not wanting an aspect of the first group nor the second.
Bolded text to single it out. Depends on what you mean by supernatural. Is breaking a force effect, cutting through the link between summoner and summoned, or throwing a dagger or shooting an arrow to interrupt a fireball and it go off early, supernatural?

In a fantasy world I would say no. If it is, then yes they should become supernatural.
The truth is the magic boots, magic gloves, and magic sword are class features in name only.

They are stand in to keep the fighter simple.

The harsh truth is the fighter, ranger, paladin, monk, and barbarian all should have Unarmed Movement, Unarmed Strike, and Inherent AC/Damage bonus columns on their class tables.
No. Nope. That’s neither harsh nor a truth, it’s literally just an idea you had,
 

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