MCDM starts work on its RPG Monday!

[Reynard]

You left out the chart of numbers you have to reference.

You reference the chart when you level to write down THAC0. You don't reference the chart every time you roll to hit. That's an attack matrix and it predates THAC0.

 

[aramis erak]

You reference the chart when you level to write down THAC0. You don't reference the chart every time you roll to hit. That's an attack matrix and it predates THAC0.

THAC-0 doesn't match the tables for BX/BECMI/Cyclopedia and AD&D 1E - due to the flat spots at various points.
The BX/BECMI/Cyclopedia solution isn't THAC-0 for anyone who cares about rules fidelity - and 4 additional ACs hit at modified rolls of 20 matters considerably at mid-high levels. It's simply copying the table line for your current 3/4/5 level entry on the table. Roll, add your mods, and see just how far to the side it takes you, moving the table lookup to the player, and making the math minimal.

The AD&D2 move to THAC-0 made a big difference in what was fightable effectively.

 

[aramis erak]

What a thoroughly arbitrary distinction.

You can use regular dice with Genesys, and YZE, and even Fate. You just have to think a little.

It slows play to a crawl to do so.
A sorting mat is faster than the standard table lookup. But it's still damned slow.
For Star Wars/Genesys, the speed hit is big enough to be a strong disincentive to play.

For L5R 5E, however, the sorting mat works much better - fewer kinds of dice, and no cancelling dice needed. It's incentive for players to buy dice, but not enough of one to stop the broke players. What L5R 5 does differently?
Only 2 kinds of dice Ring (aka Attribute) and Skill. Roll (Ring)dRing and (skill)dSkill, keeping a number of them equal to the ring's value, then compare to a difficulty number; it still has 3 axis results... successes, opportunity, and strife. Some successes are explosive - counting 1 plus allowing an extra die, rolled after the decision which dice to keep. Strife never appears alone, only as a second symbol; keeping those dice generates strife (a bad thing).

 

[RangerWickett]

It slows play to a crawl to do so.
A sorting mat is faster than the standard table lookup. But it's still damned slow.
For Star Wars/Genesys, the speed hit is big enough to be a strong disincentive to play.

For L5R 5E, however, the sorting mat works much better - fewer kinds of dice, and no cancelling dice needed. It's incentive for players to buy dice, but not enough of one to stop the broke players. What L5R 5 does differently?
Only 2 kinds of dice Ring (aka Attribute) and Skill. Roll (Ring)dRing and (skill)dSkill, keeping a number of them equal to the ring's value, then compare to a difficulty number; it still has 3 axis results... successes, opportunity, and strife. Some successes are explosive - counting 1 plus allowing an extra die, rolled after the decision which dice to keep. Strife never appears alone, only as a second symbol; keeping those dice generates strife (a bad thing).

I really like the legend of the five rings RPG. I played three campaigns in it, and I keep on trying to adapt some of the mechanics to D&D for house rules.
If I had a critique, it would be that so many abilities seem like they were designed after the fact kind of one by one, rather than having some unifying concept of how to spend all these various opportunities. Like, there are some situations where you would think that you could combine two abilities which you really can't. It doesn't combo that well where you have multiple cool tricks at higher level.

Have you checked out the d20 adventures in Rokugan book? They do some neat stuff with combat maneuvers. But then again I don't really like their magic system that much.

The quest for the perfect RPG continues.

 

[aramis erak]

Have you checked out the d20 adventures in Rokugan book? They do some neat stuff with combat maneuvers. But then again I don't really like their magic system that much.

I didn't bother with reading the mechanics because...
1. I HATE the "Take a +2 and a +1 of choice" - it's a waste of space. Just put 3 extra points in the pool and be done with it. (Or don't give any)(Same issue with post-Tasha's D&D 5E). Or go with proper fixed modifiers.
2. The class descriptions feel too D&D; no sense of L5R
3. The intro text is all about glory seeking - a sure sign that whomever (or whatever( wrote the adaptation appears to have no clue about the themes from any prior editions... or utterly rejects what makes L5R not just D&D with epicanthic folds.
4. The writing style was offputting within the first 10 pages - and I can't put a finger on exactly what was triggering that.
5. textual emphasis on playing non-humans in Rokugan.
6. half a page telling one not to attempt to reflect real world cultures...

The 3.5 OA and Rokugan books were far and away more faithful to the Rokugan setting.
The only thing good I have to say about it is that they've not tried to foist that crap in L5R 5 books yet.

 

[aramis erak]

Still easier that whatever the hell those symbols are on those weird dice.

For L5R 5E, you need to learn 4 symbols.
For Genesys, 6 symbols and 2 cancellations.
For Star Wars, 8 symbols and 2 cancellations (the extra two symbols are for the force die)

You don't need to learn the result spaces. Those naturally evolve from understanding the individual axises. Success/failure is one continuum.

The newbs I've introduced with Star Wars find it far simpler than the math-focus of D&D 5E. And that far simpler than AD&D.

Sure. At a guess the players knew ahead of time they'd be playing that game. So unless you surprised them with it they had time to read up on the funky dice.

Not a safe assumption to make.

I've had several players who disliked the symbolic results, but...
one of them was the guy noted for lying about his dice, and it's very quick to catch him in Star Wars...
one objected to multi-axis and even multi-grade results. As in, he only wants boolean answers from dice - Yes or No. He hated pendragon, too. And D&D 5E. And Pathfinder. And... (I don't know what games he DOES like.)
2 more disliked the large size of pools in Star Wars. (8-12 dice are not uncommon in campaign play)
1 disliked that the roll reveals the difficulty before rolling; It's one of my few complaints about genesys/star wars, too, but the other benefits work for me and trump that.

 

[darjr]

A view from the design room!

Can anyone read that board? Decipher it?

 

[overgeeked]

View attachment 272830

A view from the design room!

Can anyone read that board? Decipher it?

Lots of text about what they want it to be like and the dice they’ll use. Special stuff. Hang on…

 

[overgeeked]

View attachment 272830

A view from the design room!

Can anyone read that board? Decipher it?

Zoom! Enhance!

 

[MacDhomnuill]

Well that pretty much confirms the non numeric dice.

 

[darjr]

Well that pretty much confirms the non numeric dice.

Probably. But It's the first day.

 

[overgeeked]

Well that pretty much confirms the non numeric dice.

Here's to hoping instead of manufacturing unique sets of dice they sell stickers instead. Cheaper all around.

 

[Reynard]

Probably. But It's the first day.

Game design is an iterative process. They could have "funky dice" in the design for 6 months and suddenly realize it did not work they way they wanted and change direction.

I look forward to seeing what MCDM comes up with. I do not look forward to a year of people nitpicking a process they barely understand.

 

[darjr]

Speaking of the process they posted in the patreon about day one.

First dev diary for the MCDM RPG.
How much of the work we did yesterday will be in the finished game?
No idea! But this is the process...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I love when Colville gets deeply nerdy about game design, even when some of it sails right over my head.

 

[Reynard]

Dammit. Now I am going to have get back on their Patreon.

 

[aramis erak]

Here's to hoping instead of manufacturing unique sets of dice they sell stickers instead. Cheaper all around.

Not really. Stickers don't stay stuck all that well unless using the recessed dice like Milton Bradley used for a number of games, in two sizes (about 17mm and about 28mm), with the faces set back 0.5 to 1mm from the edges - look at the dice on Buffy the Vampire Slayer: The Game. They're just a bit over the "standard" 16mm dice size.
That game, BTW, is a good game; the other buffy boardgame supposedly sucks.

During the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire playtest, several of my players used the stickers; those stickers started falling off by the 4th session.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah, funky dice are getting easier and easier to find all the time, with advances in technology and an accompanying drop in cost. If anything, I'd expect more interesting dice in future, rather than less.

 

[darjr]

FYI Matt just said the idea is that they think they can do what they want with normal polyhedrals.

Moving target still.

 

[Haplo781]

Something like SAGA?

Marvel SAGA remains my second favorite take on a crunchy licensed superhero TTRPG, just below the Cortex one.