Midnight: First Impressions of Campaign Book

[Herremann the Wise]

Firstly congratulations to Gambler1650 for his excellent review of the book and initiation of this thread. When I read your review, I knew I was going to buy this book.

Secondly, congratulations to the guys at FFG for creating something that I think a lot of us wanted but could not find. To compare it to LoTR is obvious, simplistic and unfortunately, such thinking is way too narrow. If you have a look at some of the excellent fantasy that has been written recently - Martin, Gemmell (In particular), Hobb, Williams, etc. - you'll find many common threads with Midnight. However, it is not as if the guys at FFG have blatantly stolen such elements as one or two people have suggested, they have just followed a similar direction with the previous archetypes. This is something that WoTC and other publishers have not really capitalised on - the interest most D&D players have with the above best-selling authours and their worlds. All in all, excellent stuff and well done.

I think Midnight is well worth the money and would recommend it to most people. However, there are most probably a few notes worth mentioning:

- Powergamers - and there's nothing wrong with them - will find some of the restrictions very frustrating. However, with a little encouragement, you can prove to them that a Covenant Item is RELATIVELY more powerful in Midnight than a +5 Weapon in a magically overloaded campaign. The mere fact of having a magical item should be considered special in this game.

- The magic system is quite different to regular D&D. I know my group will be frustated by this - learning new rules etc. - but I think the changes are valid for the world. It preserves the balance the authours are trying to achieve.

- While some have already complained on this thread of this being a low-magic campaign world, I have to explain that such an opinion is very narrow. What the system does is make magic special. Again, it all comes down to relativity.

- While some would be tempted to just run regular rules and characters classes, I like Gambler1650 have to suggest to the people out there to try not to. Run it as written otherwise it will simply lose its edge. Brilliant work to all concerned.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[gambler1650]

Thanks Herremann! I was more detailed than I usually am because this setting is such a good one, and it doesn't seem to be very high on most D20 player's radar screens yet. I know that myself, I assumed it was kinda a gothic/horror (maybe Vampire) setting based on the cover and more or less ignored it, until I read a thread about it here. The setting concept interested me instantly, and the fact that it's so well written makes it the most 'alive' world I've seen yet.

Well, I got my first 'physical' experience with Midnight today, as I invited a potential player in my campaign over, ran him through character creation (he chafed a bit, being a huge fan of the Melee system by Steve Jackson Games - supposedly much easier character creation, but he's assured me that he won't mind a game that's not all about combat... we'll see). We also set up a quick combat situation which was my first attempt at running it 'real time' as it were (ie, partially DMing a situation using the D20 rules). I was a channeler Snow Elf with a shortbow as my major weapon. Chose the school of Illusion since it seemed to fit the kind of magic best used when facing a more numerous foe (misdirection) and if the character tries to go into formerly human lands (Change self looks to be really helpful but of course, limited to 10 minutes for first level), not to mention a rather nice first level combat spell in color spray. He created a Jungle Elf fighter, with a longbow as his primary weapon and the sepi knives as his backup.

Have to say, if a channeler is weaker compared to a wizard, it doesn't seem like it at the first level. Of course it probably helps to have a character with +2 spell points to start with (Snow Elf racial feat). Set up the situation with three orcs (standard AD&D because I didn't have time to do quick stats for the Midnight orcs) ambushing the two. Yeah, easy encounter, but it was designed to give a positive first experience for him in combat. So the orcs spot us at the same time my character spots them, and they charge. I cast Magic Weapon on my bow. Long story short, he managed to roll a 1, a 3 and a 2 on his attack rolls. My character disabled one orc at a distance with the shortbow, stunned one of the remaining two with color spray for 8 rounds, and then took a javelin to disable him. Following round, the other guy used his bow again, finally hit the orc but he was still standing, my character has the Healer Heroic path so cast cure light wounds to recover, managed not to get hit in the charge attempt, and then backed up and put an arrow through the remaining orc to fell it.

I like that a Channeler can be a good combat character in its own right, and I really like the flexibility in choosing which spell to use instead of having to prepare them in advance. With my +3 Charisma spell ability bonus, +2 racial bonus I had 6 spell points, meaning 6 first level spells and 6 zero level spells (3 + charisma modifier) could be cast a day before even causing temporary constitution damage. Seems pretty... powerful to me.

Oh, and I completely forgot my Force of Personality trait for being a Charismatic spellcaster...

One question though. The only area where I was worse than a standard Wizard is that a channeler only starts play with 5 cantrips known (as opposed to all of them for a Wizard). Same number as 1st level spells though (three). I take it that a Channeler does not know read magic unless it's one of those five?

 

[Zeddan]

Am I right in assuming that the "Ironblooded" path gives a barbarian a d20 hit die?

No after the d12 you get +1 hp per level. So the Barb gets d12+1.

This is hands down the best system that I have ever looked at.

I finally took the time to read the book.

I cannot wait to get a campaign going.

Thanks FFG

 

[d20Dwarf]

One question though. The only area where I was worse than a standard Wizard is that a channeler only starts play with 5 cantrips known (as opposed to all of them for a Wizard). Same number as 1st level spells though (three). I take it that a Channeler does not know read magic unless it's one of those five?

Sounds fun, gambler. Thanks for posting the play example, I think it shows that channelers are definitely not missing out in the capability department.

You are correct, not all channelers know read magic. After all, why do most really care? It's not as if they're ever going to see a magic item or magic writing, right?

Zeddan- Whereabouts in TX are you?

 

[gambler1650]

Sounds fun, gambler. Thanks for posting the play example, I think it shows that channelers are definitely not missing out in the capability department.

Heck, I almost worry they're overpowered compared to a fighter. Assuming they have a good spellcasting attribute score, and the additional weapon proficiency feats that many of the races have, they have better hit dice, probably better capability to cast spells and will be pretty decent at a weapon compared to a usual wizard. I assume that the racial proficiencies in a weapon override the class proficiencies (or at least are in addition to them), so for example, my Snow Elf channeler doesn't have to spend a feat to be proficient with a longbow. Not to mention, not having to prepare spells in advance. The only thing I can see that they might be worse than a Wizard in is world related. A) They're a target for the minions of Izrador (and can be detected), and B) Places to learn new spells from, scrolls, etc, will be more limited so over time they'll have less ability to learn new spells, and C) No access to certain low level spells in standard AD&D until higher levels (Magic Missile at 7th level for instance). And of course, the races most proficient as a channeler are often also those that are most hunted by Izrador. Still... statwise, they seem a heck of a lot more powerful than a Wizard at the lower levels, which by definition makes them more powerful than the other basic classes (rogue, fighter and barbarian). This isn't a complaint, just an observation, and again I assume that the balancing comes from the risk such characters come under. That risk assumes however that the main campaign takes place in areas like the plains, rather than in the Erethor for instance.

You are correct, not all channelers know read magic. After all, why do most really care? It's not as if they're ever going to see a magic item or magic writing, right?

Continuing from my last comment... I'm planning to re-read the sourcebook this coming weekend (another first for me!), but wouldn't magic items and scrolls be more common in Erethor given the elves have a more magical bent? Therefore one might expect an elven Channeler to be required to have Read Magic, at least if he's one of the Wood Elves (sorry, don't have the racial names down yet.. I know the Jungle Elves are the Danisil). Maybe that would be a subtle check on the initial power level of an elven channeler if they were required to choose "Read Magic" at the first level of Channeler. Just a thought, and one I might institute as a house rule if you think it's valid, since I'm leaning towards an extended part of the campaign I'm trying to set up, being in the Erethor (at least after the first few adventures).

Finally, an unrelated question about icewood bows. No price multiplier is given that I could recall. I assume these are items that should only be available after a quest or performing an act of great valor that would result in 'rewards' from, say, Aradil? Rather than being able to have them as part of the first level equipment purchased with the starting 'gold', that is.

 

[mattcolville]

I don't own Midnight yet, but that's not my fault. All the stores in my area are sold out.

I've got it on order and will pick it up as soon as it comes in.

I may never use it. It's not up to me. I'm planning on taking the Night Kings, making them the servants of the main bad chick from City of the Spider Queen, and have her ascend to Godhood should the PCs fail to stop the chick from CotSQ. So no Izrador of whatever his name is. She's the god trying to escape the mortal realm and fight the gods.

The PCs have to fail for that to happen, which generally means TPK, but if I have the opportunity, I'll stop the action right before they die. Then everyone rolls up character for Midnight, with the new dark age and no clear idea what happened to the old characters.

Or, they might walk right through CotSQ, in which case I'll give Midnight to someone else and bug them to run it.

The cool thing is, though of course it means a lot of work on my part, Midnight affords me the opportunity to let the PCs fail without then making new PCs to try again. No trying again. One shot, one stop. If they miss...Midnight falls.

 

[Snoweel]

- While some have already complained on this thread of this being a low-magic campaign world, I have to explain that such an opinion is very narrow. What the system does is make magic special. [/B]

Hell yeah.

I was scouring the earth for d20 low-magic rules and bumped into d20Dwarf in the chatroom here. What with his efforts in pimping Midnight and the comments on the yahoogroup, I ran out and bought it merely for the magic system.

To say I was overwhelmed by the product as a whole would be an understatement.

It is awesome. So much attention to detail, so well written, and for the first time in years, I was convinced that D&D demihuman races don't actually suck as bad as I had led myself to believe.

And that's why d20Dwarf is paying for my ticket to Texas where I will live at his place and have him DM for me on a twice-weekly basis.

But really, I will be using Midnight's magic system in my homebrew (when I get it back off the ground) and I'll also do a few different Midnight-inspired things with my races.

And a bunch of blurry patches in my homebrew's history will end up eerily reminiscent of what goes on in this product...

Actually, FFG could be hearing from my lawyer, re: plagiarism of my intellectual property.

 

[d20Dwarf]

Heck, I almost worry they're overpowered compared to a fighter. Assuming they have a good spellcasting attribute score, and the additional weapon proficiency feats that many of the races have, they have better hit dice, probably better capability to cast spells and will be pretty decent at a weapon compared to a usual wizard.

At first up to maaaybe 3rd level the channeler compares quite favorably to a fighter in my opinion, but after that things level out quite nicely. The channeler is getting on average 2 hit points less per level, and the fighter's BAB rises quicker. The channeler's spellcasting also rises very slowly, at the pace of one point of spell energy per level. As I've said before, I think the channeler is well balanced across the spectrum of levels 1-20, something the wizard clearly is not, in my opinion.

I assume that the racial proficiencies in a weapon override the class proficiencies (or at least are in addition to them), so for example, my Snow Elf channeler doesn't have to spend a feat to be proficient with a longbow.

This is correct, the racial proficiencies are bonus proficiencies, just like elves get in the PHB.

Continuing from my last comment... I'm planning to re-read the sourcebook this coming weekend (another first for me!), but wouldn't magic items and scrolls be more common in Erethor given the elves have a more magical bent? Therefore one might expect an elven Channeler to be required to have Read Magic, at least if he's one of the Wood Elves (sorry, don't have the racial names down yet.. I know the Jungle Elves are the Danisil). Maybe that would be a subtle check on the initial power level of an elven channeler if they were required to choose "Read Magic" at the first level of Channeler. Just a thought, and one I might institute as a house rule if you think it's valid

Don't base your house rules on what I think is valid, I don't know your group like you do. That said, it's entirely possible that the channeler "schools" found throughout Erethor force their students to learn read magic, although I don't think it's a given. After all, you don't need read magic to read scrolls and such, it just makes it easier. And if all the scrolls are coming from your people anyway, it's not that difficult to decipher them. For added flavor you could have each school teach a different "mandatory" spell, depending on the whim of the instructor. One guy might have a fetish for mage hand, while another may think light is just the best thing since....well, there really aren't many best things, now are there? *evil grin*

Finally, an unrelated question about icewood bows. No price multiplier is given that I could recall. I assume these are items that should only be available after a quest or performing an act of great valor that would result in 'rewards' from, say, Aradil? Rather than being able to have them as part of the first level equipment purchased with the starting 'gold', that is.

I would definitely assign them a value based on a masterwork bow, at least, which puts them far out of reach for 1st-level characters.

EDIT: I would also make them available to Erunsil at non-masterwork prices. This keeps them rare outside the Veradeen, but common enough among even low-level snow elves.

 

[gambler1650]

Thanks for the replies! Yeah, that makes sense.. though it's more like 3 1/2 HP per level, yes (with a 1d6), perhaps more since a lot of Channeler types might put a 'bonus' attribute in Constitution due to the temporary damage rules. Still not fighter-esque, but certainly not at all bad. And given they'll be hunted down like the dogs they are, and turned over to the rightful ruler of Aryth and the universe!!! Ahem.. No, I'm not a legate, what makes you say that?

 

[Krug]

bump and another glowing review.